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This was the most insightful snippet in the article for me: > Like all the teachers I spoke to, Zimotti sees Duolingo as supplemental to the kind of deep immer

This was the most insightful snippet in the article for me: > Like all the teachers I spoke to, Zimotti sees Duolingo as supplemental to the kind of deep immersion that language learning requires. But, in his opinion, the time most people spend on Duolingo is time they would otherwise spend on TikTok or watching television, not learning a second language in some more optimal way. Unfortunately, Duolingo doesn't market itself that way, preferring nonsense like "fifteen minutes a day can teach you a language". Of course there are many more customers who can spend fifteen minutes a day on it than hours at a time in an immersive context, topped up with fifteen minutes of Duolingo.

eterevsky 4y ago
I think it's perfectly adequate to learn A1 level of a new language. I actually did it with German and started in-person classes from level A2.
- routerl 4y ago
  Agreed. Duolingo is great for first exposure. I learned how to read pinyin, ask short questions (e.g. where's the bathroom), make simple purchases, etc. Beyond that, I find it almost useless for learning grammar and vocabulary. But this is still an important niche, and Duolingo owns it completely.
- input_sh 4y ago
  I got my A2 German from Duolingo and dubbed Netflix shows (German audio, English subtitles). Gonna start B1 in person in a couple of months. But while it felt like I was starting from scratch, I didn't. I had 4 years of German in middle school. I can't tell if I just "unlocked" that part of my brain, but what I can comfortably say is that ~1 year of Duolingo+Netflix made me feel much more comfortable than a more formal learning method throughout middle school.
rcarr 4y ago
Fifteen minutes a day can teach you a language. In another comment on here, I mention that the FSI estimate that a group one language takes 480 hours to learn. If you study for fifteen minutes a day, that means you will need to study for 5 and 1/4 years to master your language. Duolingo’s marketing is not the issue - the issue is the majority have unrealistic expectations regarding the effort and time involved, get frustrated and then give up.
- Macha 4y ago
  This assumes there's no economy of scale to study time, and I'm just not sure that's true. It's not indefinite, because people tire out, but I'm pretty sure an hour long study session is more than 4x as effective as a 15 minute session.
  - rcarr 4y ago
    It’s normally in the pop science articles that concentration starts bonking out around 40mins so I assume there are some studies backing that up. Personally I would take 7 x 15 minute sessions per week over a single 1hr 45 minute session or an hour session and a separate 45 minute session.
    - tough 4y ago
      The down-time lets you absorb that knowledge
- silverpepsi 4y ago
  Commonly repeated misconception. There is no way in h anyone learns Spanish in 480 hours. The number you are looking for is 575-600 class room hours which conveniently ignores this is 24 weeks with 7 hours of homework per week. Under nearly ideal circumstances where one's life is dedicated to the task. So starting point for consideration with self study is over 768 hours to reach a Spanish level you'll be moderately pleased with. My view is that 800ish hours is the first point where you start to get a bit of reward for having studied the language & likely can keep your ability long term without forgetting it all. But it is more of a starting point for study if trying to get fluent/highly functional/professional.
  - watwut 4y ago
    Your numbers are not true. Or, are true only if you demand some very high level of knowledge. I sux at learning foreign languages and did learned enough to converse and communicate everything needed with less then 480hours of learning. That was years ago, before Neflix and internet were available. And the other kids in the same school learned more then I did. Moreover, English is quite close to Spanish, so any English speaker should learn much much faster. Many words are for free. > Under nearly ideal circumstances where one's life is dedicated to the task. It definitely was not and I would not even consider it ideal. > So starting point for consideration with self study is over 768 hours to reach a Spanish level you'll be moderately pleased with. Only if you have some kind of super great expectation.
Rant423 4y ago
> Unfortunately, Duolingo doesn't market itself that way, preferring nonsense like "fifteen minutes a day can teach you a language" tbf, the ad says "fifteen minutes a day can teach you a language, what can fifteen minutes of social media do?"
- zamnos 4y ago
  Help you keep in touch with friends? You may even have some of those yourself. The 1-to-many nature of the medium may be more efficient, and allowing for pictures (which are worth a thousand words) is also helpful. 4 hours of social media a day, on the other hand, might be excessive.

eterevsky 4y ago

I think it's perfectly adequate to learn A1 level of a new language. I actually did it with German and started in-person classes from level A2.

routerl 4y ago
Agreed. Duolingo is great for first exposure. I learned how to read pinyin, ask short questions (e.g. where's the bathroom), make simple purchases, etc. Beyond that, I find it almost useless for learning grammar and vocabulary. But this is still an important niche, and Duolingo owns it completely.
input_sh 4y ago
I got my A2 German from Duolingo and dubbed Netflix shows (German audio, English subtitles). Gonna start B1 in person in a couple of months. But while it felt like I was starting from scratch, I didn't. I had 4 years of German in middle school. I can't tell if I just "unlocked" that part of my brain, but what I can comfortably say is that ~1 year of Duolingo+Netflix made me feel much more comfortable than a more formal learning method throughout middle school.

rcarr 4y ago

Fifteen minutes a day can teach you a language. In another comment on here, I mention that the FSI estimate that a group one language takes 480 hours to learn. If you study for fifteen minutes a day, that means you will need to study for 5 and 1/4 years to master your language. Duolingo’s marketing is not the issue - the issue is the majority have unrealistic expectations regarding the effort and time involved, get frustrated and then give up.

Macha 4y ago
This assumes there's no economy of scale to study time, and I'm just not sure that's true. It's not indefinite, because people tire out, but I'm pretty sure an hour long study session is more than 4x as effective as a 15 minute session.
- rcarr 4y ago
  It’s normally in the pop science articles that concentration starts bonking out around 40mins so I assume there are some studies backing that up. Personally I would take 7 x 15 minute sessions per week over a single 1hr 45 minute session or an hour session and a separate 45 minute session.
  - tough 4y ago
    The down-time lets you absorb that knowledge
silverpepsi 4y ago
Commonly repeated misconception. There is no way in h anyone learns Spanish in 480 hours. The number you are looking for is 575-600 class room hours which conveniently ignores this is 24 weeks with 7 hours of homework per week. Under nearly ideal circumstances where one's life is dedicated to the task. So starting point for consideration with self study is over 768 hours to reach a Spanish level you'll be moderately pleased with. My view is that 800ish hours is the first point where you start to get a bit of reward for having studied the language & likely can keep your ability long term without forgetting it all. But it is more of a starting point for study if trying to get fluent/highly functional/professional.
- watwut 4y ago
  Your numbers are not true. Or, are true only if you demand some very high level of knowledge. I sux at learning foreign languages and did learned enough to converse and communicate everything needed with less then 480hours of learning. That was years ago, before Neflix and internet were available. And the other kids in the same school learned more then I did. Moreover, English is quite close to Spanish, so any English speaker should learn much much faster. Many words are for free. > Under nearly ideal circumstances where one's life is dedicated to the task. It definitely was not and I would not even consider it ideal. > So starting point for consideration with self study is over 768 hours to reach a Spanish level you'll be moderately pleased with. Only if you have some kind of super great expectation.

Rant423 4y ago

> Unfortunately, Duolingo doesn't market itself that way, preferring nonsense like "fifteen minutes a day can teach you a language" tbf, the ad says "fifteen minutes a day can teach you a language, what can fifteen minutes of social media do?"

zamnos 4y ago
Help you keep in touch with friends? You may even have some of those yourself. The 1-to-many nature of the medium may be more efficient, and allowing for pictures (which are worth a thousand words) is also helpful. 4 hours of social media a day, on the other hand, might be excessive.