6 ms·

I'm 22. This has been talked about my entire life. Progress on this has been glacial, if there's been any at all. At some point, enough is going wrong with thi

by atyppo 3y ago

I'm 22. This has been talked about my entire life. Progress on this has been glacial, if there's been any at all. At some point, enough is going wrong with this country that there is going to be a mass of young and angry protestors that's never been seen before. The question of when it will happen hinges on when enough people can find enough interest and social cohesion to organize. For young people, this is not a political issue. It is an issue of inadequate and out of reach housing.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
qntmfred 3y ago
> enough is going wrong with this country that there is going to be a mass of young and angry protestors that's never been seen before says nearly every generation of ideal-minded and dissatisfied young people fwiw
- xwdv 3y ago
  Aye, one of the thing I came to realize as I grew old enough to know people younger than me who were not teens or children, is that every generation overestimates how much they’re going to change the world and underestimates how many of their peers will change their views and become some version of the things they once opposed, just on different issues or contexts. Boomers were once a very liberal generation.
  - blacksmith_tb 3y ago
    Sure, "Don't trust anyone over 30!" (or 25, or...) is just a claim that the preceding generations are too invested (in both senses) in the status quo to consider sweeping changes. Of course, sometimes sweeping changes are for the worse, so that doesn't seem to me like best battle cry, really.
  - bcrosby95 3y ago
    Boomers were liberal for their time. But society gets more liberal over time so, in comparison, they are no longer liberal.
    - xwdv 3y ago
      The Zoomers will be in charge… for a time. But then will come others, younger and more liberal. They will believe in things such as transracialism, which most Zoomers simply either oppose or have no opinion on, to them it just doesn’t make sense, but for the younger generation it will seem incredibly obvious. If a man could become a woman, why can’t a black become a white? Just believe… and make it so.
PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
> I'm 22. This has been talked about my entire life. Progress on this has been glacial, if there's been any at all. At some point, enough is going wrong with this country that there is going to be a mass of young and angry protestors that's never been seen before. Probably not. I'm 59, it's been talked about my entire life, in two countries. Governments are unwilling to fundamentally reorganize the basics of property ownership and building to help their citizens lead better (or even reasonable) lives, but they will go the extra mile or three to make sure that a mass of young and angry protestors do not get what they want.
- krainboltgreene 3y ago
  > Governments are unwilling to fundamentally reorganize the basics of property ownership and building to help their citizens lead better (or even reasonable) lives, but they will go the extra mile or three to make sure that a mass of young and angry protestors do not get what they want. That's just categorically false. There are quite a few countries that do this very thing, like Austria.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    From other replies in this thread, maybe in Vienna, but not in Graz. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35668898 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35668898
    - krainboltgreene 3y ago
      Last I checked Vienna is run by a government.
      - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
        And has it performed a radical reorganization of property ownership that has resulted in a better quality of life for its citizens? Well, I know almost nothing about Vienna, but a quick check would suggest that it has an enlightened if not entirely successful take on this. But if that's true, then Vienna is just one of the handful of the exceptions that prove the rule.
Xeronate 3y ago
I’ll believe it when I see it. Heard this sentiment 100s of times. Also housing is really only out of reach ina few highly desirable places. Many of the places that are now super desirable weren’t that great when the previous generations were moving into them (SF, Santa Monica). Maybe the new generation needs to create a community and develop it themselves.
- atyppo 3y ago
  I can’t think of anywhere off the top of my head that housing could be considered in surplus in the US. Can you? The fact is housing now consumes a much higher percentage of income than it did for earlier generations. Either wages need to catch up or housing prices need to drop.
  - Per_Bothner 3y ago
    There are many places in the US where housing is a surplus. The obvious example is Detroit (as well as other "rust-belt" cities), where many functional houses have been demolished because there is no demand. Many rural areas are also losing population.
  - karaterobot 3y ago
    > I can’t think of anywhere off the top of my head that housing could be considered in surplus in the US. Can you? In general, there's a housing shortage, but there are many places with a surplus. They are marked in purple/blue on the map in this article. https://archive.is/CMblx https://archive.is/CMblx
rcpt 3y ago
> never been seen before Hong Kong just did it. They weren't successful. Brazil a decade ago was also driven by cost of living and they won. US? I don't know. Occupy Wall Street was eradicated with terrifying efficiency. I'm not that optimistic about social movements here.
- atyppo 3y ago
  I think it’s a lack of uniform culture that makes it difficult for movements to succeed in the US. Combine that with demagoguery and other fear tactics used by politicians and it slows progress to a halt.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Occupy Wall Street was eradicated with terrifying efficiency I dropped by Occupy a few times. They did themselves in by failing to specify demands. All form and no substance.
  - pydry 3y ago
    Wealth redistribution and getting money out of politics. I guess not everybody understands this concept? The media did a pretty good job of depicting people being dragged away by riot police screaming as hippies getting bored and leaving.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > Wealth redistribution and getting money out of politics. I guess not everybody understands this concept? This isn’t an ask. It’s a general grievance. > media did a pretty good job of depicting people being dragged away by riot police screaming as hippies getting bored and leaving I was there. Never saw screaming people dragged around. Did see tear gas, which isn’t nice. Not saying it didn’t happen, but it wasn’t common. Mostly, people were yelling at each other about stuff being stolen from their tents.
      - pydry 3y ago
vsareto 3y ago
I really doubt you’ll see it unless there’s a serious degradation in life quality It’s also hard to protest if you are scraping by, and a long commitment to protesting means you lose your job Capitalism sadly wins far too often for me to think this is achievable
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> enough is going wrong with this country that there is going to be a mass of young and angry protestors that's never been seen before 18 to 24-year olds still punch in around two-thirds weight at the voting booth [1]. Protesting is useless without the ballot-box threat; absent it, the politically savvy move is to crack down and preserve voters’ benefits. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1096299/voter-turnout-presidential-elections-by-age-historical/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1096299/voter-turnout-pr...
noelsusman 3y ago
>For young people, this is not a political issue. It is an issue of inadequate and out of reach housing. Sounds like a political issue to me. 65% of Americans own a home. Making housing more affordable means taking an axe to their net worth. That's why it won't happen.
- atyppo 3y ago
  Yes. This is true. 65% of young Americans, however, do not. Hence my statement “for young people.”
listenallyall 3y ago
Climate change will continue to be the cover story for demands of self-sacrifice. Lots of 22 year olds currently think eating meat, owning a car, and traveling by plane are climate-irresponsible and have sworn off, or significantly reduced, doing so. Before too long, the argument will become that living in a house -- all the materials to build it, and especially the energy required to heat and cool it -- as opposed to a common-space dorm-like setting, is heavily wasteful, climate-unfriendly and selfish. This will suffice to eliminate any threat of protest. And if not, the powers that be will simply magnify other auxiliary stories that people actually do get out and protest about.

by atyppo 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

qntmfred 3y ago

> enough is going wrong with this country that there is going to be a mass of young and angry protestors that's never been seen before says nearly every generation of ideal-minded and dissatisfied young people fwiw

xwdv 3y ago
Aye, one of the thing I came to realize as I grew old enough to know people younger than me who were not teens or children, is that every generation overestimates how much they’re going to change the world and underestimates how many of their peers will change their views and become some version of the things they once opposed, just on different issues or contexts. Boomers were once a very liberal generation.
- blacksmith_tb 3y ago
  Sure, "Don't trust anyone over 30!" (or 25, or...) is just a claim that the preceding generations are too invested (in both senses) in the status quo to consider sweeping changes. Of course, sometimes sweeping changes are for the worse, so that doesn't seem to me like best battle cry, really.
- bcrosby95 3y ago
  Boomers were liberal for their time. But society gets more liberal over time so, in comparison, they are no longer liberal.
  - xwdv 3y ago
    The Zoomers will be in charge… for a time. But then will come others, younger and more liberal. They will believe in things such as transracialism, which most Zoomers simply either oppose or have no opinion on, to them it just doesn’t make sense, but for the younger generation it will seem incredibly obvious. If a man could become a woman, why can’t a black become a white? Just believe… and make it so.

PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago

> I'm 22. This has been talked about my entire life. Progress on this has been glacial, if there's been any at all. At some point, enough is going wrong with this country that there is going to be a mass of young and angry protestors that's never been seen before. Probably not. I'm 59, it's been talked about my entire life, in two countries. Governments are unwilling to fundamentally reorganize the basics of property ownership and building to help their citizens lead better (or even reasonable) lives, but they will go the extra mile or three to make sure that a mass of young and angry protestors do not get what they want.

krainboltgreene 3y ago
> Governments are unwilling to fundamentally reorganize the basics of property ownership and building to help their citizens lead better (or even reasonable) lives, but they will go the extra mile or three to make sure that a mass of young and angry protestors do not get what they want. That's just categorically false. There are quite a few countries that do this very thing, like Austria.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  From other replies in this thread, maybe in Vienna, but not in Graz. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35668898 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35668898
  - krainboltgreene 3y ago
    Last I checked Vienna is run by a government.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
      And has it performed a radical reorganization of property ownership that has resulted in a better quality of life for its citizens? Well, I know almost nothing about Vienna, but a quick check would suggest that it has an enlightened if not entirely successful take on this. But if that's true, then Vienna is just one of the handful of the exceptions that prove the rule.

Xeronate 3y ago

I’ll believe it when I see it. Heard this sentiment 100s of times. Also housing is really only out of reach ina few highly desirable places. Many of the places that are now super desirable weren’t that great when the previous generations were moving into them (SF, Santa Monica). Maybe the new generation needs to create a community and develop it themselves.

atyppo 3y ago
I can’t think of anywhere off the top of my head that housing could be considered in surplus in the US. Can you? The fact is housing now consumes a much higher percentage of income than it did for earlier generations. Either wages need to catch up or housing prices need to drop.
- Per_Bothner 3y ago
  There are many places in the US where housing is a surplus. The obvious example is Detroit (as well as other "rust-belt" cities), where many functional houses have been demolished because there is no demand. Many rural areas are also losing population.
- karaterobot 3y ago
  > I can’t think of anywhere off the top of my head that housing could be considered in surplus in the US. Can you? In general, there's a housing shortage, but there are many places with a surplus. They are marked in purple/blue on the map in this article. https://archive.is/CMblx https://archive.is/CMblx

rcpt 3y ago

> never been seen before Hong Kong just did it. They weren't successful. Brazil a decade ago was also driven by cost of living and they won. US? I don't know. Occupy Wall Street was eradicated with terrifying efficiency. I'm not that optimistic about social movements here.

atyppo 3y ago
I think it’s a lack of uniform culture that makes it difficult for movements to succeed in the US. Combine that with demagoguery and other fear tactics used by politicians and it slows progress to a halt.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Occupy Wall Street was eradicated with terrifying efficiency I dropped by Occupy a few times. They did themselves in by failing to specify demands. All form and no substance.
- pydry 3y ago
  Wealth redistribution and getting money out of politics. I guess not everybody understands this concept? The media did a pretty good job of depicting people being dragged away by riot police screaming as hippies getting bored and leaving.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Wealth redistribution and getting money out of politics. I guess not everybody understands this concept? This isn’t an ask. It’s a general grievance. > media did a pretty good job of depicting people being dragged away by riot police screaming as hippies getting bored and leaving I was there. Never saw screaming people dragged around. Did see tear gas, which isn’t nice. Not saying it didn’t happen, but it wasn’t common. Mostly, people were yelling at each other about stuff being stolen from their tents.
    - pydry 3y ago

vsareto 3y ago

I really doubt you’ll see it unless there’s a serious degradation in life quality It’s also hard to protest if you are scraping by, and a long commitment to protesting means you lose your job Capitalism sadly wins far too often for me to think this is achievable

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> enough is going wrong with this country that there is going to be a mass of young and angry protestors that's never been seen before 18 to 24-year olds still punch in around two-thirds weight at the voting booth [1]. Protesting is useless without the ballot-box threat; absent it, the politically savvy move is to crack down and preserve voters’ benefits. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1096299/voter-turnout-presidential-elections-by-age-historical/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1096299/voter-turnout-pr...

noelsusman 3y ago

>For young people, this is not a political issue. It is an issue of inadequate and out of reach housing. Sounds like a political issue to me. 65% of Americans own a home. Making housing more affordable means taking an axe to their net worth. That's why it won't happen.

atyppo 3y ago
Yes. This is true. 65% of young Americans, however, do not. Hence my statement “for young people.”

listenallyall 3y ago

Climate change will continue to be the cover story for demands of self-sacrifice. Lots of 22 year olds currently think eating meat, owning a car, and traveling by plane are climate-irresponsible and have sworn off, or significantly reduced, doing so. Before too long, the argument will become that living in a house -- all the materials to build it, and especially the energy required to heat and cool it -- as opposed to a common-space dorm-like setting, is heavily wasteful, climate-unfriendly and selfish. This will suffice to eliminate any threat of protest. And if not, the powers that be will simply magnify other auxiliary stories that people actually do get out and protest about.