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> In the Chinese example, Mandarin and Cantonese speakers can read and understand the same text, even though they use different words for the same concepts. Wr

> In the Chinese example, Mandarin and Cantonese speakers can read and understand the same text, even though they use different words for the same concepts. Written mandarin is different from written Cantonese and the differences are more than simplified vs traditional characters

z2 4y ago
Yeah, not a good example. Written vernacular mandarin started in the Ming dynasty and more or less was forcefully promoted in the Qing and later Republic of China as _the_ way to write Chinese, meaning other dialects lost out on developing a common written vernacular form. In this example most Cantonese speakers learned mandarin grammar and vocabulary, at least to read and write it. But did written Chinese not exist before then? Before, the literate people in East Asia used Classical Chinese, which was essentially a similar forced standardization from the dominant vernacular 2000 years ago, very similar to Europe's use of Latin. Issac Newton could read and write Latin because he learned it, not because English naturally gets written as Latin!
School-Cotton 4y ago
Written Cantonese exists, but most Cantonese-speakers write in standard written Chinese (which is what you’re calling “written Mandarin” here), and pronounce the characters in Cantonese, regardless of whether they can speak Mandarin.
- SeanLuke 4y ago
  100% correct. Cantonese speakers write in Chinese just as Mandarin speakers do (though they pronounce the characters differently). Written Cantonese, as it were, is cobbled together from certain Chinese characters and, of all things, a few English letters: perhaps mostly used nowadays to portray Cantonese dialogue in comic books.
heywhatupboys 4y ago
> Written mandarin is different from written Cantonese and the differences are more than simplified vs traditional characters I understand that this is a heartfelt wish of contemporary cultural independence, but it is simply not true for 99 %+ of Cantonese speakers year 2023.

z2 4y ago

Yeah, not a good example. Written vernacular mandarin started in the Ming dynasty and more or less was forcefully promoted in the Qing and later Republic of China as _the_ way to write Chinese, meaning other dialects lost out on developing a common written vernacular form. In this example most Cantonese speakers learned mandarin grammar and vocabulary, at least to read and write it. But did written Chinese not exist before then? Before, the literate people in East Asia used Classical Chinese, which was essentially a similar forced standardization from the dominant vernacular 2000 years ago, very similar to Europe's use of Latin. Issac Newton could read and write Latin because he learned it, not because English naturally gets written as Latin!

School-Cotton 4y ago

Written Cantonese exists, but most Cantonese-speakers write in standard written Chinese (which is what you’re calling “written Mandarin” here), and pronounce the characters in Cantonese, regardless of whether they can speak Mandarin.

SeanLuke 4y ago
100% correct. Cantonese speakers write in Chinese just as Mandarin speakers do (though they pronounce the characters differently). Written Cantonese, as it were, is cobbled together from certain Chinese characters and, of all things, a few English letters: perhaps mostly used nowadays to portray Cantonese dialogue in comic books.

heywhatupboys 4y ago

> Written mandarin is different from written Cantonese and the differences are more than simplified vs traditional characters I understand that this is a heartfelt wish of contemporary cultural independence, but it is simply not true for 99 %+ of Cantonese speakers year 2023.