3 ms·

Why not language? We could then ask them how they feel rather than just assuming. People themselves usually prefer receiving informed, accurate sympathy rather

Why not language? We could then ask them how they feel rather than just assuming. People themselves usually prefer receiving informed, accurate sympathy rather than sympathy based on crude assumptions. And physiology alone seems unlikely to tell us how they “feel” about it. Perhaps they are so amazed by the technology that they couldn’t care less about the flicker :)

eimrine 3y ago
We can barely do this to apes (gorilla Koko and maybe few others). Best cognitive interaction what the best educated birds can perform is to count 2+3 verbally (some African grey parrot).
- astrange 3y ago
  We can't teach language to apes. Chimps can learn words, but a sentence isn't a bag of words, and they don't use recursion or even ask questions. Parrots actually do better.
IIAOPSW 3y ago
There's no grammar, and thus no arbitrary construction of concepts beyond the fixed literal vocabulary. Without meaning in word order, there's no difference between "what the cat ate" and "what ate the cat". I wouldn't call it "language" for the same reason I wouldn't call HTML "programming". It does something adjacent, has some superficial similarities, but its limited in what it can ultimately be used for.
- chimpanzee 3y ago
  Some words, like “language”, are often used in the common sense rather than the technical sense. Sometimes for simplicity. Sometimes for humor. And sometimes it happens on Hacker News. But, if we’re being pedantic, I should mention that there are languages that do not require ordering for meaning but instead use declensions and conjugations (though ordering may still be used for further expressiveness). Though maybe you include this in your “fixed literal vocabulary”. Edit: A quick search suggest parrots can indeed use a basic grammar via sentence structuring. One of a few relevant search results: https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/biology/polly-wants-a-conjunction-birds-learn-artificial-grammar/#:~:text=It%20turns%20out%20we're,on%20par%20with%20infant%20humans https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/biology/polly-wants-a-con....
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eimrine 3y ago

We can barely do this to apes (gorilla Koko and maybe few others). Best cognitive interaction what the best educated birds can perform is to count 2+3 verbally (some African grey parrot).

astrange 3y ago
We can't teach language to apes. Chimps can learn words, but a sentence isn't a bag of words, and they don't use recursion or even ask questions. Parrots actually do better.

IIAOPSW 3y ago

There's no grammar, and thus no arbitrary construction of concepts beyond the fixed literal vocabulary. Without meaning in word order, there's no difference between "what the cat ate" and "what ate the cat". I wouldn't call it "language" for the same reason I wouldn't call HTML "programming". It does something adjacent, has some superficial similarities, but its limited in what it can ultimately be used for.

chimpanzee 3y ago
Some words, like “language”, are often used in the common sense rather than the technical sense. Sometimes for simplicity. Sometimes for humor. And sometimes it happens on Hacker News. But, if we’re being pedantic, I should mention that there are languages that do not require ordering for meaning but instead use declensions and conjugations (though ordering may still be used for further expressiveness). Though maybe you include this in your “fixed literal vocabulary”. Edit: A quick search suggest parrots can indeed use a basic grammar via sentence structuring. One of a few relevant search results: https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/biology/polly-wants-a-conjunction-birds-learn-artificial-grammar/#:~:text=It%20turns%20out%20we're,on%20par%20with%20infant%20humans https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/biology/polly-wants-a-con....
- deleted 3y ago
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