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> This is also true for pale colors in general(non-black and non-brown) which are perceived as more attractive Do you have sources for this? As written, to me

by zrail 3y ago

> This is also true for pale colors in general(non-black and non-brown) which are perceived as more attractive Do you have sources for this? As written, to me it reads a lot like garden variety racism.

belltaco 3y ago
I meant pale eye colors, not skin colors, edited it.
- AlecSchueler 3y ago
  And do you have sources for that? Sounds like something incredibly cultural that you're presenting as biological fact.
  - belltaco 3y ago
    Here are some sources https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/eye-opener-why-do-pupils-dialate/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/eye-opener-why-do... https://www.healthline.com/health/dilated-pupils-love#research https://www.healthline.com/health/dilated-pupils-love#resear... https://old.reddit.com//r/askscience/comments/3qu5sx/how_does_eye_color_impact_pupillary_dilation_when/ https://old.reddit.com//r/askscience/comments/3qu5sx/how_doe... https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/170417182822.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/170417182822.h...
    - medler 3y ago
      The first, second, and fourth links are about pupil dilation generally. They don’t say anything about eye color. They most certainly say nothing to support your assertions about the connection between eye color and the perception of pupil dilation. The third link (the Reddit thread) does mention eye color but only in the context of the effects of dilating drugs (drops). This also is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
      - belltaco 3y ago
        > They most certainly say nothing to support your assertions about the connection between eye color and the perception of pupil dilation I would think this was common knowledge just from talking to a lot of people face to face but again this is HN with people of multiple backgrounds and people that don't like talking to people and spend a lot of time indoors, not to mention people who are not good at picking up emotional and social cues, so here's the reference from 1975. https://www.jstor.org/stable/24949943 https://www.jstor.org/stable/24949943 > We also found that blue-eyed people have a stronger pupil response than brown-eyed people when they view a picture that causes pupil dilation or constriction. To be more precise, with respect to the total range of response from the smallest pupil size to the largest the range is greater for blue-eyed people than it is for brown-eyed people. (This statement applies, of course, only to changes in pupil size resulting from emotions or attitudes.) > It is of course easier to see a pupil surrounded by a blue iris than it is to see one surrounded by a brown iris.
        medler 3y ago
        I see you are more interested in hurling insults than arguing your case in good faith. That’s fine but it means I am done responding to you after this comment. > It is of course easier to see a pupil surrounded by a blue iris than it is to see one surrounded by a brown iris. Again this is an undefended assertion. It’s important to remember we’re talking about subconscious responses to pupil size. Just because you (and Eckhard Hess) believe it is “easier” to consciously perceivr pupils surrounded by blue irises does not mean your subconscious is any less aware of pupils in brown eyes. If it’s true that it’s easier to subconsciously decode pupils in blue eyes then it should be easy to verify experimentally. Similarly, if it is easier to be aware of the emotional state of blue-eyed people then that should be easy to prove experimentally. What’s harder is showing your assertions that blue-eyed people thus make better partners or that this makes blue eyes an evolutionary advantage.
        belltaco 3y ago
        > It’s important to remember we’re talking about subconscious responses to pupil size. Just because you (and Eckhard Hess) believe it is “easier” to consciously perceivr pupils surrounded by blue irises does not mean your subconscious is any less aware of pupils in brown eyes. Subconscious responses are still limited by physical limitations. If you don't believe, you can win the James Randi one million dollar prize by demonstrating it with an experiment. Maybe you can show that someone can subconsciously identify the shapes of a very black object placed in front of another very black object in a dark room. > If it’s true that it’s easier to subconsciously decode pupils in blue eyes then it should be easy to verify experimentally It's a proven fact that features are easier or harder to discern based on their background. For example a white cat is easier to see when it's almost pitch dark compared to a dark cat. Maybe someone like you can pioneer research in an experiment to formally prove it. One can start by asking people which pupils are easier to discern from the iris in this picture. Pupils are black or a very dark color btw. https://mylumineyes.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/eye-color-chart-2.webp https://mylumineyes.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/eye-color... Compare top row to the rest. Now think about all the lighting conditions and distances that occur when people talk to or interact with other people. Of course there are people with vision impairments who won't notice the differences and may think they might all look the same. Scientists don't waste time trying to prove things already proven just because some internet troll debater may question things. Hess' paper is quite well cited, so it should be easy to find any counter assertion to something that he stated with such high confidence: "It is of course". Maybe you can try finding one, but from this thread so far it seems like you're more interested in dismissing things for arguments' sake rather than try sourcing information like I have been doing. > I see you are more interested in hurling insults than arguing your case in good faith. That’s fine but it means I am done responding to you after this comment. You're the one that hasn't put in any research and just dismissing any scientific source I post. It's a pain and a waste of time to respond to low effort argumentative folks.

by zrail 3y ago

belltaco 3y ago

I meant pale eye colors, not skin colors, edited it.

AlecSchueler 3y ago
And do you have sources for that? Sounds like something incredibly cultural that you're presenting as biological fact.
- belltaco 3y ago
  Here are some sources https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/eye-opener-why-do-pupils-dialate/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/eye-opener-why-do... https://www.healthline.com/health/dilated-pupils-love#research https://www.healthline.com/health/dilated-pupils-love#resear... https://old.reddit.com//r/askscience/comments/3qu5sx/how_does_eye_color_impact_pupillary_dilation_when/ https://old.reddit.com//r/askscience/comments/3qu5sx/how_doe... https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/170417182822.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/170417182822.h...
  - medler 3y ago
    The first, second, and fourth links are about pupil dilation generally. They don’t say anything about eye color. They most certainly say nothing to support your assertions about the connection between eye color and the perception of pupil dilation. The third link (the Reddit thread) does mention eye color but only in the context of the effects of dilating drugs (drops). This also is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
    - belltaco 3y ago
      > They most certainly say nothing to support your assertions about the connection between eye color and the perception of pupil dilation I would think this was common knowledge just from talking to a lot of people face to face but again this is HN with people of multiple backgrounds and people that don't like talking to people and spend a lot of time indoors, not to mention people who are not good at picking up emotional and social cues, so here's the reference from 1975. https://www.jstor.org/stable/24949943 https://www.jstor.org/stable/24949943 > We also found that blue-eyed people have a stronger pupil response than brown-eyed people when they view a picture that causes pupil dilation or constriction. To be more precise, with respect to the total range of response from the smallest pupil size to the largest the range is greater for blue-eyed people than it is for brown-eyed people. (This statement applies, of course, only to changes in pupil size resulting from emotions or attitudes.) > It is of course easier to see a pupil surrounded by a blue iris than it is to see one surrounded by a brown iris.
      - medler 3y ago
        I see you are more interested in hurling insults than arguing your case in good faith. That’s fine but it means I am done responding to you after this comment. > It is of course easier to see a pupil surrounded by a blue iris than it is to see one surrounded by a brown iris. Again this is an undefended assertion. It’s important to remember we’re talking about subconscious responses to pupil size. Just because you (and Eckhard Hess) believe it is “easier” to consciously perceivr pupils surrounded by blue irises does not mean your subconscious is any less aware of pupils in brown eyes. If it’s true that it’s easier to subconsciously decode pupils in blue eyes then it should be easy to verify experimentally. Similarly, if it is easier to be aware of the emotional state of blue-eyed people then that should be easy to prove experimentally. What’s harder is showing your assertions that blue-eyed people thus make better partners or that this makes blue eyes an evolutionary advantage.
        belltaco 3y ago
        > It’s important to remember we’re talking about subconscious responses to pupil size. Just because you (and Eckhard Hess) believe it is “easier” to consciously perceivr pupils surrounded by blue irises does not mean your subconscious is any less aware of pupils in brown eyes. Subconscious responses are still limited by physical limitations. If you don't believe, you can win the James Randi one million dollar prize by demonstrating it with an experiment. Maybe you can show that someone can subconsciously identify the shapes of a very black object placed in front of another very black object in a dark room. > If it’s true that it’s easier to subconsciously decode pupils in blue eyes then it should be easy to verify experimentally It's a proven fact that features are easier or harder to discern based on their background. For example a white cat is easier to see when it's almost pitch dark compared to a dark cat. Maybe someone like you can pioneer research in an experiment to formally prove it. One can start by asking people which pupils are easier to discern from the iris in this picture. Pupils are black or a very dark color btw. https://mylumineyes.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/eye-color-chart-2.webp https://mylumineyes.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/eye-color... Compare top row to the rest. Now think about all the lighting conditions and distances that occur when people talk to or interact with other people. Of course there are people with vision impairments who won't notice the differences and may think they might all look the same. Scientists don't waste time trying to prove things already proven just because some internet troll debater may question things. Hess' paper is quite well cited, so it should be easy to find any counter assertion to something that he stated with such high confidence: "It is of course". Maybe you can try finding one, but from this thread so far it seems like you're more interested in dismissing things for arguments' sake rather than try sourcing information like I have been doing. > I see you are more interested in hurling insults than arguing your case in good faith. That’s fine but it means I am done responding to you after this comment. You're the one that hasn't put in any research and just dismissing any scientific source I post. It's a pain and a waste of time to respond to low effort argumentative folks.