4 ms·

You are conflating many low cap nonsense coins with actually revolutionary and valued ones. Gambling returns an expected -2% to -10% by design. If you pick vi

by elif 4y ago

You are conflating many low cap nonsense coins with actually revolutionary and valued ones. Gambling returns an expected -2% to -10% by design. If you pick virtually any 5 year interval for Ethereum or Bitcoin, you see >100% growth. In the current crash, they are up 128% and 187% respectively. Fiat currencies are not "gambling" even though they fluctuate in relative value and even mimic the -2% to -10% expected return of gambling far more appropriately than major cryptos.

apnew 4y ago
The argument that crypto is not gambling just because some coins reported >0% returns is rather weak. The first definition of Gambling I found; >> the act of playing for stakes in the hope of winning (including the payment of a price for a chance to win a prize).
- elif 4y ago
  "some coins reported >0% returns" is weak I agree. Fortunately my point was that the main 2 "report >100% returns for every single 'player' who waited 5 years." using your gambling definition, I would say that "chance" to return a prize is not accurate as it is a "virtual if not outright certainty" historically speaking.
  - Eisenstein 4y ago
    > for every single 'player' who waited 5 years. For every player who bought coins and put them in a cold wallet and sat on them? Because otherwise the chances are pretty high that they got scammed, lost their coins in an exchange collapse, lost access to them, or, you know, traded them like every other person who deals with coins who didn't die or lose their wallet keys or forgot about it.
- throwawayadvsec 4y ago
  i'm not a crypto supporter, but the same applies to the stock market, housing, or any business or investment
  - NickM 4y ago
    Stock shares are an investment because the stock market is a positive sum game in the long run. Yes there are risks but the returns produced by the market are due to actual value being generated in the form of goods and services. Investing in Bitcoin is like investing in shares of a company that produces nothing, and which only is able to fund its continued operations by continuing to issue and sell more shares once every ten minutes. Investing in a real compay that worked that way would be considered crazy, but somehow it’s supposed to be different because it’s decentralized. The financial implications are the same though; it’s a negative sum game instead of a positive sum game. That’s why it’s more like gambling than an investment. The amount of money that comes back out is always going to be less than the amount that goes in, in the end.
    - throwawayadvsec 4y ago
      "because the stock market is a positive sum game in the long run" No, in the actual long run you and every of your descendants dies and the earth get disintegrated.
    - tanseydavid 4y ago
      Is someone who day-trades stocks an "Investor" or a "Gambler"? I think most people who day-trade would call themselves "investors" but it seems precisely like gambling to me. Can trading stocks be both "investing" or "gambling" depending on how you approach it?
      - MacsHeadroom 4y ago
        Day-traders tend to not call themselves investors. They call themselves traders. Investing involves holding assets long term. But they certainly don't call themselves gamblers. At least not any that turn it into a successful career.
      - stouset 4y ago
        They are gamblers.
      - 4y ago
MagicMoonlight 4y ago
Madoff was also offering >100% consistent growth
- elif 4y ago
  That's just not true. Madoff gave 4%-10% annual returns and siphoned off 12% of funds overall. Bitcoin gave 25% annual returns and is cryptographically guaranteed to siphon off 0% of funds.
  - Eisenstein 4y ago
    > Bitcoin gave 25% annual returns Don't you have to sell them to get your money?
    - elif 4y ago
      Yes
yashg 4y ago
I am not going to educate you on what gambling is, or what is the purpose of money. You made me laugh by calling some magic tokens revolutionary. Yes a revolutionary new way of duping poor people of their money.
jjtheblunt 4y ago
(not being sarcastic, just naive) what is an example of an actually revolutionary coin?

by elif 4y ago

apnew 4y ago

The argument that crypto is not gambling just because some coins reported >0% returns is rather weak. The first definition of Gambling I found; >> the act of playing for stakes in the hope of winning (including the payment of a price for a chance to win a prize).

elif 4y ago
"some coins reported >0% returns" is weak I agree. Fortunately my point was that the main 2 "report >100% returns for every single 'player' who waited 5 years." using your gambling definition, I would say that "chance" to return a prize is not accurate as it is a "virtual if not outright certainty" historically speaking.
- Eisenstein 4y ago
  > for every single 'player' who waited 5 years. For every player who bought coins and put them in a cold wallet and sat on them? Because otherwise the chances are pretty high that they got scammed, lost their coins in an exchange collapse, lost access to them, or, you know, traded them like every other person who deals with coins who didn't die or lose their wallet keys or forgot about it.
throwawayadvsec 4y ago
i'm not a crypto supporter, but the same applies to the stock market, housing, or any business or investment
- NickM 4y ago
  Stock shares are an investment because the stock market is a positive sum game in the long run. Yes there are risks but the returns produced by the market are due to actual value being generated in the form of goods and services. Investing in Bitcoin is like investing in shares of a company that produces nothing, and which only is able to fund its continued operations by continuing to issue and sell more shares once every ten minutes. Investing in a real compay that worked that way would be considered crazy, but somehow it’s supposed to be different because it’s decentralized. The financial implications are the same though; it’s a negative sum game instead of a positive sum game. That’s why it’s more like gambling than an investment. The amount of money that comes back out is always going to be less than the amount that goes in, in the end.
  - throwawayadvsec 4y ago
    "because the stock market is a positive sum game in the long run" No, in the actual long run you and every of your descendants dies and the earth get disintegrated.
  - tanseydavid 4y ago
    Is someone who day-trades stocks an "Investor" or a "Gambler"? I think most people who day-trade would call themselves "investors" but it seems precisely like gambling to me. Can trading stocks be both "investing" or "gambling" depending on how you approach it?
    - MacsHeadroom 4y ago
      Day-traders tend to not call themselves investors. They call themselves traders. Investing involves holding assets long term. But they certainly don't call themselves gamblers. At least not any that turn it into a successful career.
    - stouset 4y ago
      They are gamblers.
    - 4y ago

MagicMoonlight 4y ago

Madoff was also offering >100% consistent growth

elif 4y ago
That's just not true. Madoff gave 4%-10% annual returns and siphoned off 12% of funds overall. Bitcoin gave 25% annual returns and is cryptographically guaranteed to siphon off 0% of funds.
- Eisenstein 4y ago
  > Bitcoin gave 25% annual returns Don't you have to sell them to get your money?
  - elif 4y ago
    Yes

yashg 4y ago

I am not going to educate you on what gambling is, or what is the purpose of money. You made me laugh by calling some magic tokens revolutionary. Yes a revolutionary new way of duping poor people of their money.

jjtheblunt 4y ago

(not being sarcastic, just naive) what is an example of an actually revolutionary coin?