5 ms·

if you’re earning sky high base comp + stock + benefits at these places you’re not working class. You are incredibly out of touch.

occz 3y ago
The distinguishing factor for being working class/owner class is whether or not you make the majority of your income from your labour, or from your capital. Incredibly well-paid working class, but working class all the same.
malermeister 3y ago
The definition of working class is making their income from selling their labor as opposed to from capital. Everything else is an implementation detail.
- mypornaccount 3y ago
  I think it’s pretty ignorant to think a staff software engineer at Google and the cleaning lady are in the same boat
  - throwaway173738 3y ago
    It depends on how you define the boat. I think you can argue that in both cases continued servitude is the only way either of them can get food and a place to sleep indoors. There’s a big gulf of experience beyond that. But you can only form a coalition with someone on the basis of common ground. So while you’re both right, it’s not going to help either the cleaner or the engineer get better treatment if they don’t acknowledge similarities where they exist.
    - riceart 3y ago
      > I think you can argue that in both cases continued servitude is the only way either of them can get food and a place to sleep indoors. No you can’t argue that because it’s stupid. A typical google software engineer will have made enough that in their early 30s they can quit/retire and live the rest of their life at at least the same standard of living as that cleaning lady (almost none of them find that an acceptable standard but that’s far beyond food and a place to sleep) These are not similar circumstances by any means.
      - throwaway173738 3y ago
        So what do you want then, a world where the engineer has the same standard of living as the cleaner or where the cleaner has the same standard of living as the engineer?
        riceart 3y ago
        Umm, neither.
  - malermeister 3y ago
    They both have the surplus value created by their labor stolen by the capitalist class. Of course, that affects the cleaning lady more, but the core theft and the exploitative power dynamics they both are affected by are the same. One of the tricks capital uses to keep control is to pit us against each other. Only through solidarity throughout the entire working class we can affect real change.
  - occz 3y ago
    No one's saying they have exactly the same struggle to deal with. The cleaning lady definitely has more struggles, but this does not change the fundamental point that both the Google Staff engineer and the cleaning lady primarily derive their wealth by selling their labour, as opposed to deriving their wealth from their capital.
SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
Not if you have a visa to worry about. Doesn’t matter how much money you have then. You need another job in 30 days or you and your entire family are at risk.
- cudgy 3y ago
  So, they can take their pile of cash and return to their native country and live like kings?
  - SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
    No, because they’ve established a life in the new country. They might have spouse or children. Forced moving js traumatic.
    - cudgy 3y ago
      Moving generally sucks. Moving is traumatic whether it is forced or not and whether a migrant or not. It can be almost the same trauma when moving to the other side of a large city as moving to another country. Kids still change schools; spouses still change jobs; housing and community changes; distance to friends and family changes interactions; etc At least a migrant has the option of returning to their home country with a network of family and old friends; natives are stuck jobless and with high cost of living or choosing to uproot and migrate to a new country with lower cost of living, becoming migrants themselves. There is no stress-free ride for anyone.
- mupuff1234 3y ago
  Pretty sure that with enough money to can solve almost any visa issue one way or another (investor visa etc)
ResearchCode 3y ago
A regular family home with 4 bedrooms near the office is $3M or more. If you have to save aggressively for 10 or 20 years to own a home close to work, then you are at best working class.

occz 3y ago

The distinguishing factor for being working class/owner class is whether or not you make the majority of your income from your labour, or from your capital. Incredibly well-paid working class, but working class all the same.

malermeister 3y ago

The definition of working class is making their income from selling their labor as opposed to from capital. Everything else is an implementation detail.

mypornaccount 3y ago
I think it’s pretty ignorant to think a staff software engineer at Google and the cleaning lady are in the same boat
- throwaway173738 3y ago
  It depends on how you define the boat. I think you can argue that in both cases continued servitude is the only way either of them can get food and a place to sleep indoors. There’s a big gulf of experience beyond that. But you can only form a coalition with someone on the basis of common ground. So while you’re both right, it’s not going to help either the cleaner or the engineer get better treatment if they don’t acknowledge similarities where they exist.
  - riceart 3y ago
    > I think you can argue that in both cases continued servitude is the only way either of them can get food and a place to sleep indoors. No you can’t argue that because it’s stupid. A typical google software engineer will have made enough that in their early 30s they can quit/retire and live the rest of their life at at least the same standard of living as that cleaning lady (almost none of them find that an acceptable standard but that’s far beyond food and a place to sleep) These are not similar circumstances by any means.
    - throwaway173738 3y ago
      So what do you want then, a world where the engineer has the same standard of living as the cleaner or where the cleaner has the same standard of living as the engineer?
      - riceart 3y ago
        Umm, neither.
- malermeister 3y ago
  They both have the surplus value created by their labor stolen by the capitalist class. Of course, that affects the cleaning lady more, but the core theft and the exploitative power dynamics they both are affected by are the same. One of the tricks capital uses to keep control is to pit us against each other. Only through solidarity throughout the entire working class we can affect real change.
- occz 3y ago
  No one's saying they have exactly the same struggle to deal with. The cleaning lady definitely has more struggles, but this does not change the fundamental point that both the Google Staff engineer and the cleaning lady primarily derive their wealth by selling their labour, as opposed to deriving their wealth from their capital.

SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago

Not if you have a visa to worry about. Doesn’t matter how much money you have then. You need another job in 30 days or you and your entire family are at risk.

cudgy 3y ago
So, they can take their pile of cash and return to their native country and live like kings?
- SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
  No, because they’ve established a life in the new country. They might have spouse or children. Forced moving js traumatic.
  - cudgy 3y ago
    Moving generally sucks. Moving is traumatic whether it is forced or not and whether a migrant or not. It can be almost the same trauma when moving to the other side of a large city as moving to another country. Kids still change schools; spouses still change jobs; housing and community changes; distance to friends and family changes interactions; etc At least a migrant has the option of returning to their home country with a network of family and old friends; natives are stuck jobless and with high cost of living or choosing to uproot and migrate to a new country with lower cost of living, becoming migrants themselves. There is no stress-free ride for anyone.
mupuff1234 3y ago
Pretty sure that with enough money to can solve almost any visa issue one way or another (investor visa etc)

ResearchCode 3y ago

A regular family home with 4 bedrooms near the office is $3M or more. If you have to save aggressively for 10 or 20 years to own a home close to work, then you are at best working class.