4 ms·

The evidence I've seen seems to indicate that meat and dairy are the healthy alternative. They also have centuries of safety data, unlike many (most?) vegan alt

The evidence I've seen seems to indicate that meat and dairy are the healthy alternative. They also have centuries of safety data, unlike many (most?) vegan alternatives, which rely heavily on such things as canola oil and have to be engineered. I doubt you'll agree, and I'm sure you'll be able to pull out some studies suggesting otherwise, but perhaps we can agree we shouldn't be making policy decisions that shift the diets of millions of people when we're dealing with a field (nutrition) that is really in its infancy.

Retric 4y ago
Nutrition isn’t in its infancy. The real issue is people assume small changes in diet are more important than they are. Fiber for example is useful for mechanical reasons in your digestive system, but you don’t actually digest it. It’s possible to be completely healthy and eat essentially zero fiber. Similarly eating massive quantities of fiber isn’t particularly beneficial. There’s this misconception that there’s some single ideal diet and anything else is unhealthy. But we turn a high percentage of our food into energy and excrete stuff we don’t need. That provides extreme flexibility assuming you’re eating a wide range of plants and animals it’s probably fine. Eat a more limited diet and you have to be more careful, but not excessively so. Of course when you take an even closer look things do get more complex, but for most people it’s not particularly relevant. The biggest issue is simply number of calories.
Eduard 4y ago
> many (most?) vegan alternatives, which rely heavily on such things as canola oil and have to be engineered. Kinda strawmanny to take/highlight unhealthy food as the vegan alternatives compared. > perhaps we can agree we shouldn't be making policy decisions that shift the diets of millions of people The diary and meat industries are prime examples that have profited and am profiting from (influencing) policy decisions. Including: subventions for dumping milk and meat prices; and manipulating dietary recommendations (check "food pyramid" with "lobby"), hence shifting diets of millions of people.
- kelipso 4y ago
  Oat milk is a popular vegan milk and almost all of them are 10% canola oil. It's not that much of a strawman.
  - Eduard 4y ago
    > almost all of them * which you checked / where you live Probably you mean 10% oat, not canola oil; that much fat wouldn't be a vegan drink milk alternative. Besides, I don't find the current evidence for canola oil being unhealthy convincing.
    - kelipso 4y ago
      No, I mean canola oil. It's to give a creamy texture to oat milk. Oatly oat milk, for example, more than 1/3 of its calories come from canola oil.
_0w8t 4y ago
Meat and dairy from modern factory farms that feed animals with grain is very different from farms from, say, 19th century, when cows was feed mostly grass without antibiotics and were spending a lot of time outside. So the reasons for safety do not apply.
- Amezarak 4y ago
  Grass fed and finished beef is actually cheaper than factory farm meat if you buy it in bulk rather than at the supermarket.

Retric 4y ago

Nutrition isn’t in its infancy. The real issue is people assume small changes in diet are more important than they are. Fiber for example is useful for mechanical reasons in your digestive system, but you don’t actually digest it. It’s possible to be completely healthy and eat essentially zero fiber. Similarly eating massive quantities of fiber isn’t particularly beneficial. There’s this misconception that there’s some single ideal diet and anything else is unhealthy. But we turn a high percentage of our food into energy and excrete stuff we don’t need. That provides extreme flexibility assuming you’re eating a wide range of plants and animals it’s probably fine. Eat a more limited diet and you have to be more careful, but not excessively so. Of course when you take an even closer look things do get more complex, but for most people it’s not particularly relevant. The biggest issue is simply number of calories.

Eduard 4y ago

> many (most?) vegan alternatives, which rely heavily on such things as canola oil and have to be engineered. Kinda strawmanny to take/highlight unhealthy food as the vegan alternatives compared. > perhaps we can agree we shouldn't be making policy decisions that shift the diets of millions of people The diary and meat industries are prime examples that have profited and am profiting from (influencing) policy decisions. Including: subventions for dumping milk and meat prices; and manipulating dietary recommendations (check "food pyramid" with "lobby"), hence shifting diets of millions of people.

kelipso 4y ago
Oat milk is a popular vegan milk and almost all of them are 10% canola oil. It's not that much of a strawman.
- Eduard 4y ago
  > almost all of them * which you checked / where you live Probably you mean 10% oat, not canola oil; that much fat wouldn't be a vegan drink milk alternative. Besides, I don't find the current evidence for canola oil being unhealthy convincing.
  - kelipso 4y ago
    No, I mean canola oil. It's to give a creamy texture to oat milk. Oatly oat milk, for example, more than 1/3 of its calories come from canola oil.

_0w8t 4y ago

Meat and dairy from modern factory farms that feed animals with grain is very different from farms from, say, 19th century, when cows was feed mostly grass without antibiotics and were spending a lot of time outside. So the reasons for safety do not apply.

Amezarak 4y ago
Grass fed and finished beef is actually cheaper than factory farm meat if you buy it in bulk rather than at the supermarket.