4 ms·

Person with Schizoaffective Bipolar Disorder here. (I also have tinnitus but whatevs). Doing this has been what I feel is my greatest accomplishment. You know,

Person with Schizoaffective Bipolar Disorder here. (I also have tinnitus but whatevs). Doing this has been what I feel is my greatest accomplishment. You know, thoughts are a sense. You sense thoughts like you sense sounds. You do not think thought, that is just an illusion of the ego. You are not the thinker! Once I understood this my life became so much easier. Nothing is reality to me anymore, everything is a loosely coordinated social hallucination. So when I see birds flying the corner of my room it makes sense, and I enjoy them. When I see a cat walk across the coffee shop I get to enjoy something no one else can. When I hear peoples thoughts and they are telling me they can read mine I open myself up to them and share my darkest secrets. We should all realize that our senses are a shared hallucination. It might help solve a lot of problems in the world.

CoastalCoder 4y ago
I'm really impressed that you came up with a mental model that works so well. Thanks for sharing!
psychphysic 4y ago
Those are very unusual, atypical hallucinations and Schizoaffective disorder and Bipolar Disorder are two separate but similar disorders.
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  "Those are very unusual, atypical hallucinations" They have been telling me that all my life. What is your point? "Schizoaffective disorder and Bipolar Disorder are two separate but similar disorders" Yes, and Schizoaffective Disorder Bipolar Type is it's own thing. A Misdiagnosed Case of Schizoaffective Disorder With Bipolar Manifestations https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8394638/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8394638/ What's your point? There is a relation to them all, some of us do not fit into neat little diagnostic packages. Actually, most of us do. https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/40/3/504/1905950 https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/40/3/...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- kayodelycaon 4y ago
  From Wikipedia: There are three forms of schizoaffective disorder: bipolar (or manic) type (marked by symptoms of schizophrenia and mania), depressive type (marked by symptoms of schizophrenia and depression), and mixed type (marked by symptoms of schizophrenia, depression, and mania).
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - psychphysic 4y ago
    The issue isn't that، you can't simply rearrange words and omit others the way he used the phrase was nonsensical. And having a quick look through his post history I suspect it's a self diagnosis and one of several he has given himself, which is at times just "bipolar disorder".
    - FollowingTheDao 4y ago
      Sometimes people do not put words in the order you want. Sorry. > And having a quick look through his post history I suspect it's a self diagnosis and one of several he has given himself, which is at times just "bipolar disorder". Sorry I was not specific enough for random people on the internet who are not into psychiatry and would probably not know the distinction. I usually tell people I am just Bipolar because that is less scary to people than the "Schizo" part. And you know, in general, I am nonsensical to most people, but most people are not as smart as me. If you want to call my doctor to verify my condition. But I mean how does one get disability with a diagnosis I made up myself? A lot of people with Long COVID would like to know.
jtr1 4y ago
I’ve become very interested in the phenomenon of hyperphantasia recently, or the degree to which people are able to conjure various senses in their imagination. My wife is able to envision spaces well enough to recall where most things are in the house, a friend can nearly taste a flavor she’s only encountered in a dream. For myself, I can recall music or sounds quite vividly, and on occasion this manifests as aural hallucinations (often with fatigue). If you don’t mind me asking, I’m curious if you feel that your visual and aural imagination are very strong and if so, do you believe there’s any connection with the additional sights and sounds you encounter out in the world?
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  I have a strong imagination and make connections easily that people have a hard time seeing until I explain it. I believe most hallucination are the result of a creative predictive mind that is trying to understand patterns. Like I can often feel like I understand the meaning behind some of my schizophrenic friends hallucination. I think that they are speaking in stories and metaphors.
  - LoganDark 4y ago
    I've never once in my life been able to have a hallucination or truly imagine what something would really feel like. Even taking psychedelics doesn't seem to help. I just don't hallucinate, I don't get psychosis, and I don't get any symptoms of schizophrenia, despite having a long family history of it. Yes, those are not necessarily nice things to live with. But it feels terrible and suffocating to have never had a taste of any of it. To be so stuck in this reality that I can't create any reality of my own. Sure, technically the reality that I see is just part of my mind. But it never gets extended, never gets modified or anything. Not even if I stay up for 4 days straight do I ever see or hear anything atypical. I've never had sleep paralysis. Never had a lucid dream. Never even had a lucid daydream. What infrequent daydreams I do have, I get stuck inside because I think they're real and forget all about actual reality. Because it's so difficult and so infrequent for me to ever experience anything else with my senses, my brain has been wired to believe my senses as the one and only source of truth. It feels so claustrophobic. I'm so jealous...
kayodelycaon 4y ago
> Thoughts are a sense. I never really thought of it that way. I can feel my mood as if it was any other sense. Subconscious paranoia has the feeling of sharks in the back of my mind.
SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
I agree and I would take this one step further. I would challenge that not just our senses are a shared hallucination but how those senses are perceived are just as prone to delusional thinking/beliefs not set in reality as anyone else. Someone can objectively type a neutral statement but you can interpret it as passive aggressive and now have a delusional belief that this person dislikes you, assuming you know their intent and mind. I myself run into this a lot with people who aren’t on the schizophrenia spectrum of disorders: they tend to believe wholly that their interpretation of stimuli is equivalent to reality, and are highly resistant to the idea that their impressions can be wrong. This is anywhere from “you didn’t text me back after 10 minutes, you don’t like me” to “I like this programming language therefore I end up believing it’s technically necessary” and especially the “I can’t conceptualize someone else’s experiences, therefore they must be lying”.
sabpthrwy 4y ago
Hi, I realize this is unorthodox, but there are so few people like you, that I'm hoping you can offer me some advice. My wife was diagnosed as BP1 at 18 due to psychosis associated with mania. Many years later in her mid 30s, I believe she's been misdiagnosed, as she suffers from persistent auditory hallucinations even when not manic, which I believe is the threshold for schizoaffective BP. I've actually just only come to learn about this disorder recently. I've thought she was BP1 this whole time, but I think there's more to it now. The issue is that I cannot convince her that she's hallucinating, even though I'm positive she is. Indeed, she's hallucinated me saying things, and those are just about the only ones I can convince her. But that only happened one time. What's more, she believes she's hearing things from her doctors, so she switches them constantly. I can't get a hold of them either, of course, because as you probably know, family members have next to zero rights when it comes to this kind of thing. How can I ever convince her to seek help and medication for these hallucinations? How can I get a doctor to listen to me and take me seriously about what's happening to her? It seems impossible to break through. Even when I do convince her that a specific hallucination was as such, she never considers the possibility on her own. This leads to situations where she's cut out her entire family because she believes they are saying terrible things about her when her back is turned, or through walls. We can't pass strangers on the street because when we do, she's sure they're talking shit about her. She can't hold down a doctor because when she leaves, she thinks he is gossiping about her with the receptionist, and when they talk, of course she never brings up hallucinations she's having. Thank God for remote work because she hasn't had a serious job since 2014 until now. I don't know how to break this cycle, and it's only getting worse. How were you convinced that you were hallucinating?
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  > How were you convinced that you were hallucinating? To be honest, some things were easier to spot than others. I used to have olfactory hallucination and it drove on ex girlfriend nuts cause I was always smelling things that were not there. I just invited she was not smelling anything. I also have closed eye visions. These appear as faces and scenes when I close my eyes, mostly in the evening that are quite visually crisp. Most of the faces are frightening. I did not know I was dealing with this till I started Zyprexa and they stopped. The visual hallucinations were easier since I would say "Did you see that cat?" and I would get strange looks or someone else there would not see them. And seriously, watching "A Beautiful Mind" helped me with this. The thing that helped me most was Buddhism and meditation. Buddhism lead me to thinking more about the nature of perception and meditation allowed me to perceive without reaction so I can judge things better. A also have perceptual changes, like being on psychedelics, but these are not hallucinations. I feel like I can see around things or everything has light trails or colors are really intense. When I was early in mediation the floor would always start waving like an ocean. When I was young I saw the faces of people on the TV change and I thought I was seeing them as they really were. I get a lot of the talk that your girlfriend has, and that is hard an I still deal with it but mostly by ignoring it. It is by far the most difficult. Its base is paranoia I feel because those voices are always saying negative things, like I did not pay for my coffee right. Ha! Just happened today! By the way, COVID threw me into my worst psychosis ever. I do not know what to say about helping her. I was in her space and I know how it feels. No one could convince me of anything. I thought the water was "too blue" coming out of my faucet that I called the water department twice for them to check it. 1) Don't take things she does personally. That eases your stress. 2) Do not directly contradict her hallucinations but try guided questioning about them. That is what 30 years of therapy taught me. I question everything now. 3) You can call her doctor and leave a message. 4) I do not recommend ever having her involuntarily committed unless she is a serious danger. But this is not something anyone else can force her into, it is a process of self discovery, a Shaman's journey. And maybe phrase it as that; A Shaman's Journey. I lost my whole family, but frankly they were not good for me anyway. And I still have episodes, as you can see if you go through my history here, but I am much more stable now than ever and no longer need medications. Good luck and if your want to email me: followingdao@proton.me
austinjp 4y ago
> thoughts are a sense This is a wonderfully simple, profound insight. Thanks for sharing it :)
yadingus 4y ago
You might know this already but in Buddhism the mind is considered one of the senses :)
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  Citta! ;)

CoastalCoder 4y ago

I'm really impressed that you came up with a mental model that works so well. Thanks for sharing!

psychphysic 4y ago

Those are very unusual, atypical hallucinations and Schizoaffective disorder and Bipolar Disorder are two separate but similar disorders.

FollowingTheDao 4y ago
"Those are very unusual, atypical hallucinations" They have been telling me that all my life. What is your point? "Schizoaffective disorder and Bipolar Disorder are two separate but similar disorders" Yes, and Schizoaffective Disorder Bipolar Type is it's own thing. A Misdiagnosed Case of Schizoaffective Disorder With Bipolar Manifestations https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8394638/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8394638/ What's your point? There is a relation to them all, some of us do not fit into neat little diagnostic packages. Actually, most of us do. https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/40/3/504/1905950 https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/40/3/...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
kayodelycaon 4y ago
From Wikipedia: There are three forms of schizoaffective disorder: bipolar (or manic) type (marked by symptoms of schizophrenia and mania), depressive type (marked by symptoms of schizophrenia and depression), and mixed type (marked by symptoms of schizophrenia, depression, and mania).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- psychphysic 4y ago
  The issue isn't that، you can't simply rearrange words and omit others the way he used the phrase was nonsensical. And having a quick look through his post history I suspect it's a self diagnosis and one of several he has given himself, which is at times just "bipolar disorder".
  - FollowingTheDao 4y ago
    Sometimes people do not put words in the order you want. Sorry. > And having a quick look through his post history I suspect it's a self diagnosis and one of several he has given himself, which is at times just "bipolar disorder". Sorry I was not specific enough for random people on the internet who are not into psychiatry and would probably not know the distinction. I usually tell people I am just Bipolar because that is less scary to people than the "Schizo" part. And you know, in general, I am nonsensical to most people, but most people are not as smart as me. If you want to call my doctor to verify my condition. But I mean how does one get disability with a diagnosis I made up myself? A lot of people with Long COVID would like to know.

jtr1 4y ago

I’ve become very interested in the phenomenon of hyperphantasia recently, or the degree to which people are able to conjure various senses in their imagination. My wife is able to envision spaces well enough to recall where most things are in the house, a friend can nearly taste a flavor she’s only encountered in a dream. For myself, I can recall music or sounds quite vividly, and on occasion this manifests as aural hallucinations (often with fatigue). If you don’t mind me asking, I’m curious if you feel that your visual and aural imagination are very strong and if so, do you believe there’s any connection with the additional sights and sounds you encounter out in the world?

FollowingTheDao 4y ago
I have a strong imagination and make connections easily that people have a hard time seeing until I explain it. I believe most hallucination are the result of a creative predictive mind that is trying to understand patterns. Like I can often feel like I understand the meaning behind some of my schizophrenic friends hallucination. I think that they are speaking in stories and metaphors.
- LoganDark 4y ago
  I've never once in my life been able to have a hallucination or truly imagine what something would really feel like. Even taking psychedelics doesn't seem to help. I just don't hallucinate, I don't get psychosis, and I don't get any symptoms of schizophrenia, despite having a long family history of it. Yes, those are not necessarily nice things to live with. But it feels terrible and suffocating to have never had a taste of any of it. To be so stuck in this reality that I can't create any reality of my own. Sure, technically the reality that I see is just part of my mind. But it never gets extended, never gets modified or anything. Not even if I stay up for 4 days straight do I ever see or hear anything atypical. I've never had sleep paralysis. Never had a lucid dream. Never even had a lucid daydream. What infrequent daydreams I do have, I get stuck inside because I think they're real and forget all about actual reality. Because it's so difficult and so infrequent for me to ever experience anything else with my senses, my brain has been wired to believe my senses as the one and only source of truth. It feels so claustrophobic. I'm so jealous...

kayodelycaon 4y ago

> Thoughts are a sense. I never really thought of it that way. I can feel my mood as if it was any other sense. Subconscious paranoia has the feeling of sharks in the back of my mind.

SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago

I agree and I would take this one step further. I would challenge that not just our senses are a shared hallucination but how those senses are perceived are just as prone to delusional thinking/beliefs not set in reality as anyone else. Someone can objectively type a neutral statement but you can interpret it as passive aggressive and now have a delusional belief that this person dislikes you, assuming you know their intent and mind. I myself run into this a lot with people who aren’t on the schizophrenia spectrum of disorders: they tend to believe wholly that their interpretation of stimuli is equivalent to reality, and are highly resistant to the idea that their impressions can be wrong. This is anywhere from “you didn’t text me back after 10 minutes, you don’t like me” to “I like this programming language therefore I end up believing it’s technically necessary” and especially the “I can’t conceptualize someone else’s experiences, therefore they must be lying”.

sabpthrwy 4y ago

Hi, I realize this is unorthodox, but there are so few people like you, that I'm hoping you can offer me some advice. My wife was diagnosed as BP1 at 18 due to psychosis associated with mania. Many years later in her mid 30s, I believe she's been misdiagnosed, as she suffers from persistent auditory hallucinations even when not manic, which I believe is the threshold for schizoaffective BP. I've actually just only come to learn about this disorder recently. I've thought she was BP1 this whole time, but I think there's more to it now. The issue is that I cannot convince her that she's hallucinating, even though I'm positive she is. Indeed, she's hallucinated me saying things, and those are just about the only ones I can convince her. But that only happened one time. What's more, she believes she's hearing things from her doctors, so she switches them constantly. I can't get a hold of them either, of course, because as you probably know, family members have next to zero rights when it comes to this kind of thing. How can I ever convince her to seek help and medication for these hallucinations? How can I get a doctor to listen to me and take me seriously about what's happening to her? It seems impossible to break through. Even when I do convince her that a specific hallucination was as such, she never considers the possibility on her own. This leads to situations where she's cut out her entire family because she believes they are saying terrible things about her when her back is turned, or through walls. We can't pass strangers on the street because when we do, she's sure they're talking shit about her. She can't hold down a doctor because when she leaves, she thinks he is gossiping about her with the receptionist, and when they talk, of course she never brings up hallucinations she's having. Thank God for remote work because she hasn't had a serious job since 2014 until now. I don't know how to break this cycle, and it's only getting worse. How were you convinced that you were hallucinating?

FollowingTheDao 4y ago
> How were you convinced that you were hallucinating? To be honest, some things were easier to spot than others. I used to have olfactory hallucination and it drove on ex girlfriend nuts cause I was always smelling things that were not there. I just invited she was not smelling anything. I also have closed eye visions. These appear as faces and scenes when I close my eyes, mostly in the evening that are quite visually crisp. Most of the faces are frightening. I did not know I was dealing with this till I started Zyprexa and they stopped. The visual hallucinations were easier since I would say "Did you see that cat?" and I would get strange looks or someone else there would not see them. And seriously, watching "A Beautiful Mind" helped me with this. The thing that helped me most was Buddhism and meditation. Buddhism lead me to thinking more about the nature of perception and meditation allowed me to perceive without reaction so I can judge things better. A also have perceptual changes, like being on psychedelics, but these are not hallucinations. I feel like I can see around things or everything has light trails or colors are really intense. When I was early in mediation the floor would always start waving like an ocean. When I was young I saw the faces of people on the TV change and I thought I was seeing them as they really were. I get a lot of the talk that your girlfriend has, and that is hard an I still deal with it but mostly by ignoring it. It is by far the most difficult. Its base is paranoia I feel because those voices are always saying negative things, like I did not pay for my coffee right. Ha! Just happened today! By the way, COVID threw me into my worst psychosis ever. I do not know what to say about helping her. I was in her space and I know how it feels. No one could convince me of anything. I thought the water was "too blue" coming out of my faucet that I called the water department twice for them to check it. 1) Don't take things she does personally. That eases your stress. 2) Do not directly contradict her hallucinations but try guided questioning about them. That is what 30 years of therapy taught me. I question everything now. 3) You can call her doctor and leave a message. 4) I do not recommend ever having her involuntarily committed unless she is a serious danger. But this is not something anyone else can force her into, it is a process of self discovery, a Shaman's journey. And maybe phrase it as that; A Shaman's Journey. I lost my whole family, but frankly they were not good for me anyway. And I still have episodes, as you can see if you go through my history here, but I am much more stable now than ever and no longer need medications. Good luck and if your want to email me: followingdao@proton.me

austinjp 4y ago

> thoughts are a sense This is a wonderfully simple, profound insight. Thanks for sharing it :)

yadingus 4y ago

You might know this already but in Buddhism the mind is considered one of the senses :)

FollowingTheDao 4y ago
Citta! ;)