4 ms·

Yeah, the whole idea of keeping birds seems painfully sad to me - taking creatures that have this amazing power of natural flight, with agency to explore vast l

Yeah, the whole idea of keeping birds seems painfully sad to me - taking creatures that have this amazing power of natural flight, with agency to explore vast landscapes and see amazing things, and then keeping them inside (and/or sometimes with clipped wings). And added to that how difficult it can be for long-lived birds when their caretakers die and they can be left with somebody who doesn't really like them (or whom they don't really like), or donated to a zoo... a family friend's parrot was given to a (very good) butterfly house when she died and he just seems so sad every time I see him now Maybe I'm just being narrow-minded, and the exact same thing is true for dogs & cats

xeonmc 3y ago
It’s why the symbolism of caged birds is a recurrent literary device for a long as the history of literature.
nopassrecover 3y ago
Do you feel differently about fish who can swim?
- eimrine 3y ago
  No fish is so intelligent as the simplest bird.
  - pvaldes 3y ago
    I would not bet my money on it. In some areas fishes can score higher than many other vertebrates for sure, including big apes Anybody keeping an aquarium knows that many fishes are surprisingly smart. Specially predatory fishes. They have a good long term memory and can recognize individual caretaker humans. The brain/bodyweight ratio of some species is bigger than humans. This mean that they have a bigger brain that most birds, lizards and rodents of the same size. Sharks are pretty clever for example.
- garblegarble 3y ago
  A very good question - I do feel differently about fish, and I think it's the relative level of intelligence. As you suggest, it's clearly not just because birds have an ability to explore an environment natively that humans don't. I'm sure that's a bias towards similarities with human intelligence - to communicate, solve puzzles, and use tools (e.g. crows and parrots) because it would be very sad if people were regularly keeping octopuses in home fish tanks.
skinkestek 3y ago
For those like me who thought clipped wings meant exactly that, at least from what I have learned it usually just means removing 1 or 2 large feathers at the wing tips, not amputating an actual part of the wing. Maybe this is obvious to everyone else but for me this thing seemed way worse than it actually was.
- MandieD 3y ago
  For some pet parrots, yes, flight feathers are trimmed as they come in to temporarily prevent or reduce flight, but traditionally, ducks and geese being raised for meat and feathers do have part of the outside wing joint removed to permanently prevent flight - this is called pinioning.
  - someweirdperson 3y ago
    At least they won't be hungry, getting fed more than they would eat on their own [0]. That seems to be called gavage. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force-feeding https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force-feeding
- garblegarble 3y ago
  While that's good to hear, what disturbs me about clipping wings is robbing a bird of their ability to fly
  - yareally 3y ago
    As long as they're not fully clipped, they can still fly, but they don't get a ton of lift. Parrot owners typically do it so they don't accidentally fly outside and end up in a worse situation than a few clipped feathers that grow back in a few months. Birds get spooked by the most random things, so it's hard to know what will trigger them to fly into danger Fully clipping their flight feathers is cruel, dangerous and can result in injury when a bird falls more than a few feet. Also causes muscle atrophy and makes the birds dependant on their humans
  - skinkestek 3y ago
sebiandev 3y ago
Domestic cats are another story. Mine actually prefers inside and is not very social even with other cats. Prefers solitude, sleep, cuddles and eating. My dog, on the other hand, a 70lb Husky mix requires a great deal of activity outside as well as socialization with his pack of friends from the dog park. 2+ hours of physical activity and socialization a day keeps him happy but, you have to be a responsible pet owner, listen to your pets and give them everything they need and more. Your pet shouldn't just be surviving, they should be thriving. It's your responsibility.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

xeonmc 3y ago

It’s why the symbolism of caged birds is a recurrent literary device for a long as the history of literature.

nopassrecover 3y ago

Do you feel differently about fish who can swim?

eimrine 3y ago
No fish is so intelligent as the simplest bird.
- pvaldes 3y ago
  I would not bet my money on it. In some areas fishes can score higher than many other vertebrates for sure, including big apes Anybody keeping an aquarium knows that many fishes are surprisingly smart. Specially predatory fishes. They have a good long term memory and can recognize individual caretaker humans. The brain/bodyweight ratio of some species is bigger than humans. This mean that they have a bigger brain that most birds, lizards and rodents of the same size. Sharks are pretty clever for example.
garblegarble 3y ago
A very good question - I do feel differently about fish, and I think it's the relative level of intelligence. As you suggest, it's clearly not just because birds have an ability to explore an environment natively that humans don't. I'm sure that's a bias towards similarities with human intelligence - to communicate, solve puzzles, and use tools (e.g. crows and parrots) because it would be very sad if people were regularly keeping octopuses in home fish tanks.

skinkestek 3y ago

For those like me who thought clipped wings meant exactly that, at least from what I have learned it usually just means removing 1 or 2 large feathers at the wing tips, not amputating an actual part of the wing. Maybe this is obvious to everyone else but for me this thing seemed way worse than it actually was.

MandieD 3y ago
For some pet parrots, yes, flight feathers are trimmed as they come in to temporarily prevent or reduce flight, but traditionally, ducks and geese being raised for meat and feathers do have part of the outside wing joint removed to permanently prevent flight - this is called pinioning.
- someweirdperson 3y ago
  At least they won't be hungry, getting fed more than they would eat on their own [0]. That seems to be called gavage. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force-feeding https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force-feeding
garblegarble 3y ago
While that's good to hear, what disturbs me about clipping wings is robbing a bird of their ability to fly
- yareally 3y ago
  As long as they're not fully clipped, they can still fly, but they don't get a ton of lift. Parrot owners typically do it so they don't accidentally fly outside and end up in a worse situation than a few clipped feathers that grow back in a few months. Birds get spooked by the most random things, so it's hard to know what will trigger them to fly into danger Fully clipping their flight feathers is cruel, dangerous and can result in injury when a bird falls more than a few feet. Also causes muscle atrophy and makes the birds dependant on their humans
- skinkestek 3y ago

sebiandev 3y ago

Domestic cats are another story. Mine actually prefers inside and is not very social even with other cats. Prefers solitude, sleep, cuddles and eating. My dog, on the other hand, a 70lb Husky mix requires a great deal of activity outside as well as socialization with his pack of friends from the dog park. 2+ hours of physical activity and socialization a day keeps him happy but, you have to be a responsible pet owner, listen to your pets and give them everything they need and more. Your pet shouldn't just be surviving, they should be thriving. It's your responsibility.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]