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> The UN says that the death penalty has not proven to be an effective deterrent globally and is incompatible with international human rights law, which only pe

> The UN says that the death penalty has not proven to be an effective deterrent globally and is incompatible with international human rights law, which only permits capital punishment for the most serious crimes. I don’t know it seems to be working in Singapore. They don’t have a fentanyl drug crisis. On the other hand, this seems like a fairly excessive punishment given the safety and relative pharmaceutical use of marijuana. On the other other hand, Singapore is pretty clear about the law and death sentence that will follow. You really have to be a special kind of dunce to violate that law (even if people think it’s excessive). May God have mercy on that man’s soul, because Singapore certainly won’t.

duxup 3y ago
> I don’t know it seems to be working in Singapore. They don’t have a fentanyl drug crisis Are those two connected?
aaomidi 3y ago
> I don’t know it seems to be working in Singapore. They don’t have a fentanyl drug crisis. Please explain your thought process here.
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  Drug abuse is much less of a problem in Singapore, so they must be doing something right. At least that's what the GP means I think.
  - p-e-w 3y ago
    > Drug abuse is much less of a problem in Singapore Is it? Is there any reliable data that demonstrates this? By which I mean, data that isn't (directly or indirectly) controlled by the same government that wants to kill people for possessing drugs, and thus has a vested interest in justifying that policy.
    - mardifoufs 3y ago
      Wouldn't your last point be true for any government data, anywhere? That it would have a vested interest in justifying government policy? I don't think there's generally any reason to doubt Singapore official data in general. Do you happen to know about any source on it being unreliable? Or even rumours that it is? (FWIW, I totally agree thay killing citizens over weed is batshit insane, even if it was hypothetically proven to be very effective method to reduce drug usage/dealing)
      - p-e-w 3y ago
        Singapore is ranked 139th in the Press Freedom Index[1]. Until last year, it ranked behind Russia and Afghanistan. It's safe to say that publicly challenging Singapore's official figures, or trying to obtain data from alternative sources, would be very difficult, if not outright dangerous. So this is not the same thing as questioning data from just anywhere else. Singapore's government transparency is abysmal by international standards, especially by the standards of developed countries. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dehrmann 3y ago
SF and Singapore have the exact opposite drug policies and outcomes.
malthaus 3y ago
"I don’t know it seems to be working in Singapore. They don’t have a fentanyl drug crisis." north america has a fentanyl crisis, most other parts of the world with a wide spectrum of drug policies don't. also, the gap between cannabis and fentanyl is enormous, not all "drugs" are the same. that's an absolutely crazy causation link to dream up to justify a death sentence. additionally, i wouldn't assume the "dunce" did this to buy his 3rd lambo, he's probably just trying to survive given the cards he was dealt.
- survivorr 3y ago
  "Trying to survive" by committing crimes that are punished with death is a bit of a dunce move though, right?
vlovich123 3y ago
I have a rock that keeps away tigers in my town. No one in the town I’ve lived in work my rock has ever been attacked by tigers. Would you like to buy my magical rock? Seriously, plenty of other countries have avoided the opioid/fentanyl problem without the death penalty. Doesn’t that imply there’s something different? Perhaps extreme lobbying by opioid manufacturers for doctors to overprescribe them and turning the other way to pill mills? Given the opioid epidemic was driven by legal opioids and the black market grew to supply people who could no longer afford the legal supply, I think that suggests Singapore’s death penalty policy has nothing to do here. Moreover, I suspect like all places, Singaporians don’t have that much difficulty accessing illicit drugs. Do you think this 1kg represents the totality of the illicit drug trade in Singapore? Heck. If anything the death penalty should be the cause of record profits for black market drug distributors - where there’s more risk you can charge more money because there’s less competition willing to take that risk. That increases prices to a point but it’s not going to price it out of complete reach (otherwise you have no customers).
- blueyoda 3y ago
  > "I have a rock that keeps away tigers in my town. No one in the town I’ve lived in work my rock has ever been attacked by tigers. Would you like to buy my magical rock?" I'm not sure if the "correlation != causation" argument works here. They have serious laws to prevent drug smuggling, and all the data shows that it is working. Logic suggests deterrent against serious crime => less serious crime > "Moreover, I suspect like all places, Singaporians don’t have that much difficulty accessing illicit drugs." "I suspect" is not a valid source. "Singapore has one of the lowest rates of drug abuse in the world: 30 opiates abusers per 100,000 people" (source: The Washington Post) Perhaps the law serving as a deterrent against heinous crimes works?
  - shkkmo 3y ago
    > Perhaps the law serving as a deterrent against heinous crimes works? That's not what evidence about the death penalty shows.
    - 3y ago

duxup 3y ago

> I don’t know it seems to be working in Singapore. They don’t have a fentanyl drug crisis Are those two connected?

aaomidi 3y ago

> I don’t know it seems to be working in Singapore. They don’t have a fentanyl drug crisis. Please explain your thought process here.

mardifoufs 3y ago
Drug abuse is much less of a problem in Singapore, so they must be doing something right. At least that's what the GP means I think.
- p-e-w 3y ago
  > Drug abuse is much less of a problem in Singapore Is it? Is there any reliable data that demonstrates this? By which I mean, data that isn't (directly or indirectly) controlled by the same government that wants to kill people for possessing drugs, and thus has a vested interest in justifying that policy.
  - mardifoufs 3y ago
    Wouldn't your last point be true for any government data, anywhere? That it would have a vested interest in justifying government policy? I don't think there's generally any reason to doubt Singapore official data in general. Do you happen to know about any source on it being unreliable? Or even rumours that it is? (FWIW, I totally agree thay killing citizens over weed is batshit insane, even if it was hypothetically proven to be very effective method to reduce drug usage/dealing)
    - p-e-w 3y ago
      Singapore is ranked 139th in the Press Freedom Index[1]. Until last year, it ranked behind Russia and Afghanistan. It's safe to say that publicly challenging Singapore's official figures, or trying to obtain data from alternative sources, would be very difficult, if not outright dangerous. So this is not the same thing as questioning data from just anywhere else. Singapore's government transparency is abysmal by international standards, especially by the standards of developed countries. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

dehrmann 3y ago

SF and Singapore have the exact opposite drug policies and outcomes.

malthaus 3y ago

"I don’t know it seems to be working in Singapore. They don’t have a fentanyl drug crisis." north america has a fentanyl crisis, most other parts of the world with a wide spectrum of drug policies don't. also, the gap between cannabis and fentanyl is enormous, not all "drugs" are the same. that's an absolutely crazy causation link to dream up to justify a death sentence. additionally, i wouldn't assume the "dunce" did this to buy his 3rd lambo, he's probably just trying to survive given the cards he was dealt.

survivorr 3y ago
"Trying to survive" by committing crimes that are punished with death is a bit of a dunce move though, right?

vlovich123 3y ago

I have a rock that keeps away tigers in my town. No one in the town I’ve lived in work my rock has ever been attacked by tigers. Would you like to buy my magical rock? Seriously, plenty of other countries have avoided the opioid/fentanyl problem without the death penalty. Doesn’t that imply there’s something different? Perhaps extreme lobbying by opioid manufacturers for doctors to overprescribe them and turning the other way to pill mills? Given the opioid epidemic was driven by legal opioids and the black market grew to supply people who could no longer afford the legal supply, I think that suggests Singapore’s death penalty policy has nothing to do here. Moreover, I suspect like all places, Singaporians don’t have that much difficulty accessing illicit drugs. Do you think this 1kg represents the totality of the illicit drug trade in Singapore? Heck. If anything the death penalty should be the cause of record profits for black market drug distributors - where there’s more risk you can charge more money because there’s less competition willing to take that risk. That increases prices to a point but it’s not going to price it out of complete reach (otherwise you have no customers).

blueyoda 3y ago
> "I have a rock that keeps away tigers in my town. No one in the town I’ve lived in work my rock has ever been attacked by tigers. Would you like to buy my magical rock?" I'm not sure if the "correlation != causation" argument works here. They have serious laws to prevent drug smuggling, and all the data shows that it is working. Logic suggests deterrent against serious crime => less serious crime > "Moreover, I suspect like all places, Singaporians don’t have that much difficulty accessing illicit drugs." "I suspect" is not a valid source. "Singapore has one of the lowest rates of drug abuse in the world: 30 opiates abusers per 100,000 people" (source: The Washington Post) Perhaps the law serving as a deterrent against heinous crimes works?
- shkkmo 3y ago
  > Perhaps the law serving as a deterrent against heinous crimes works? That's not what evidence about the death penalty shows.
  - 3y ago