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The article seems to assume that regulations, once enacted, never change and impede progress forever, while in real life, technical regulatory bodies update reg

by not2b 4y ago

The article seems to assume that regulations, once enacted, never change and impede progress forever, while in real life, technical regulatory bodies update regulations when conditions change. They might change the rules more slowly than some entrepreneurs desire, but when the purpose of the rule is safety, better safe than sorry.

AmericanChopper 4y ago
> They might change the rules more slowly than some entrepreneurs desire, but when the purpose of the rule is safety, better safe than sorry. The larger the authority, the slower they move, and the less sophisticated the technical understanding they have (because in a large bureaucratic authority, many non-experts have to be convinced of a change in addition to the experts). It’s also not something that only impacts laissez faire capitalists. Information Security experts understood for decades that conventional password complexity requirements produced harmful outcomes. How long did it take an authority to produce an alternative standard? How much reputational risk did they take on by depreciating a security standard? Thank god NIST and the NCSC had the courage and competence to adopt this change, but how many lesser authorities have failed to keep pace with it? How many individual organisations? Alternatively, how much do you think the European Parliament has slowed development of new USB connectors? Are we all going to love USB-C as much in 20 years as we do today? How could a new and improved connector even distinguish itself for consideration? Experimenting with improvements in the market is prohibited by law. If an improved connector became popular in an outside market, how long would it take the European Parliament to notice? How long would it take them to make a change?
- zokier 4y ago
  > Alternatively, how much do you think the European Parliament has slowed development of new USB connectors? Are we all going to love USB-C as much in 20 years as we do today? How could a new and improved connector even distinguish itself for consideration? Before USB-C, EU had already standardized Micro-USB for phones. Yet there was no difficulty in transitioning to USB-C. https://www.engadget.com/2010-12-29-european-standardization-bodies-formalize-micro-usb-cellphone-ch.html?guccounter=1 https://www.engadget.com/2010-12-29-european-standardization...
  - AmericanChopper 4y ago
    > Before USB-C, EU had already standardized Micro-USB for phones. No it hadn’t. The standard you’re referencing is simply an agreement between manufacturers, and was organised by independent standards organisations. It was not a regulation, and had nothing to do with the EU government. Next year an actual regulation will come into effect, with the force of law, that will explicitly prohibit the forms of innovation and self-organisation that led to those industry bodies coming to that agreement in the first place.
- Eisenstein 4y ago
  > Information Security experts understood for decades that conventional password complexity requirements produced harmful outcomes. How long did it take an authority to produce an alternative standard? Please tell me which authority is in charge of password complexity. The only one I could name is the NIST, and you mentioned them. > Alternatively, how much do you think the European Parliament has slowed development of new USB connectors? What makes you think that the USB standards committee didn't create the USB-C standard in anticipation of this and are happy that their connector became standard? The connector itself was designed to be configurable in software standards. Power is negotiated independent of the connector, as are data rates. The PD standard has already undergone multiple revisions as have the data standards and other uses for the connector. The connector is independent of its uses and standardizing it was the plan all along. Why do we need another one when the USB committee doesn't think we do?
  - AmericanChopper 4y ago
    > Please tell me which authority is in charge of password complexity. There are numerous authorities around the world who mandate this. Last time I checked, the PCI DSS required conventional password complexity, and if you want to process credit cards, then you must comply with the PCI SSC’s standards. Central banks all around the world impose security standards on retail banks. Governments all over the world impose security standards on their vendors, and upon other industries that they regulate. NIST and the NCSC should be applauded for their innovation here, but they’re absolutely not the only regulating authorities in the world, and it took them a shockingly long time to adopt this incredibly simple change. > What makes you think that the USB standards committee didn't create the USB-C standard in anticipation of this and are happy that their connector became standard? I’m sure there’s not a standards committee in the world that would be unhappy about being enshrined into the law. But that doesn’t mean it’s appropriate to regulate this with legislation, and doesn’t change the fact that legislation like this stifles innovation. Innovation is a bottom up process. Innovation happens when small groups of people come up with something new, and gradually convince other people to adopt it by demonstrating its value to them. Changes to regulation can only happen top down. Any attempt to innovate in a regulated context eventually hits a wall where innovative experimentation must gain the blessing of the regulating authority before it progresses any further. It’s easy to advocate for this trade off when safety is involved. It’s no less stifling, in fact when a regulation is created to prevent a serious harm, it’s substantially more stifling and difficult to change. But the benefit of that trade off is very simple to understand. Regulating cellphone charging cables however, does not fall into that category, and the costs imposed by the regulation are of a highly dubious value. How many cables did you use 20 years ago, that you’re still happy using today? I can’t think of a single example in my personal life. I can only think of one that I begrudgingly use. The USB C connector will be 14 years old by the time the EU’s regulations are done rolling out.
rhyme-boss 4y ago
Right. There's nothing stopping someone from doing an experiment to prove a regulation needs changing. If you want to do something "innovative", do it safely. Don't experiment with innocent people's lives on the line.
AbrahamParangi 4y ago
The counterpoint is “better safe than sorry” effectively means “I will never invent anything ever”. It’s not 10% less progress it’s 95%.

by not2b 4y ago

AmericanChopper 4y ago

> They might change the rules more slowly than some entrepreneurs desire, but when the purpose of the rule is safety, better safe than sorry. The larger the authority, the slower they move, and the less sophisticated the technical understanding they have (because in a large bureaucratic authority, many non-experts have to be convinced of a change in addition to the experts). It’s also not something that only impacts laissez faire capitalists. Information Security experts understood for decades that conventional password complexity requirements produced harmful outcomes. How long did it take an authority to produce an alternative standard? How much reputational risk did they take on by depreciating a security standard? Thank god NIST and the NCSC had the courage and competence to adopt this change, but how many lesser authorities have failed to keep pace with it? How many individual organisations? Alternatively, how much do you think the European Parliament has slowed development of new USB connectors? Are we all going to love USB-C as much in 20 years as we do today? How could a new and improved connector even distinguish itself for consideration? Experimenting with improvements in the market is prohibited by law. If an improved connector became popular in an outside market, how long would it take the European Parliament to notice? How long would it take them to make a change?

zokier 4y ago
> Alternatively, how much do you think the European Parliament has slowed development of new USB connectors? Are we all going to love USB-C as much in 20 years as we do today? How could a new and improved connector even distinguish itself for consideration? Before USB-C, EU had already standardized Micro-USB for phones. Yet there was no difficulty in transitioning to USB-C. https://www.engadget.com/2010-12-29-european-standardization-bodies-formalize-micro-usb-cellphone-ch.html?guccounter=1 https://www.engadget.com/2010-12-29-european-standardization...
- AmericanChopper 4y ago
  > Before USB-C, EU had already standardized Micro-USB for phones. No it hadn’t. The standard you’re referencing is simply an agreement between manufacturers, and was organised by independent standards organisations. It was not a regulation, and had nothing to do with the EU government. Next year an actual regulation will come into effect, with the force of law, that will explicitly prohibit the forms of innovation and self-organisation that led to those industry bodies coming to that agreement in the first place.
Eisenstein 4y ago
> Information Security experts understood for decades that conventional password complexity requirements produced harmful outcomes. How long did it take an authority to produce an alternative standard? Please tell me which authority is in charge of password complexity. The only one I could name is the NIST, and you mentioned them. > Alternatively, how much do you think the European Parliament has slowed development of new USB connectors? What makes you think that the USB standards committee didn't create the USB-C standard in anticipation of this and are happy that their connector became standard? The connector itself was designed to be configurable in software standards. Power is negotiated independent of the connector, as are data rates. The PD standard has already undergone multiple revisions as have the data standards and other uses for the connector. The connector is independent of its uses and standardizing it was the plan all along. Why do we need another one when the USB committee doesn't think we do?
- AmericanChopper 4y ago
  > Please tell me which authority is in charge of password complexity. There are numerous authorities around the world who mandate this. Last time I checked, the PCI DSS required conventional password complexity, and if you want to process credit cards, then you must comply with the PCI SSC’s standards. Central banks all around the world impose security standards on retail banks. Governments all over the world impose security standards on their vendors, and upon other industries that they regulate. NIST and the NCSC should be applauded for their innovation here, but they’re absolutely not the only regulating authorities in the world, and it took them a shockingly long time to adopt this incredibly simple change. > What makes you think that the USB standards committee didn't create the USB-C standard in anticipation of this and are happy that their connector became standard? I’m sure there’s not a standards committee in the world that would be unhappy about being enshrined into the law. But that doesn’t mean it’s appropriate to regulate this with legislation, and doesn’t change the fact that legislation like this stifles innovation. Innovation is a bottom up process. Innovation happens when small groups of people come up with something new, and gradually convince other people to adopt it by demonstrating its value to them. Changes to regulation can only happen top down. Any attempt to innovate in a regulated context eventually hits a wall where innovative experimentation must gain the blessing of the regulating authority before it progresses any further. It’s easy to advocate for this trade off when safety is involved. It’s no less stifling, in fact when a regulation is created to prevent a serious harm, it’s substantially more stifling and difficult to change. But the benefit of that trade off is very simple to understand. Regulating cellphone charging cables however, does not fall into that category, and the costs imposed by the regulation are of a highly dubious value. How many cables did you use 20 years ago, that you’re still happy using today? I can’t think of a single example in my personal life. I can only think of one that I begrudgingly use. The USB C connector will be 14 years old by the time the EU’s regulations are done rolling out.

rhyme-boss 4y ago

Right. There's nothing stopping someone from doing an experiment to prove a regulation needs changing. If you want to do something "innovative", do it safely. Don't experiment with innocent people's lives on the line.

AbrahamParangi 4y ago

The counterpoint is “better safe than sorry” effectively means “I will never invent anything ever”. It’s not 10% less progress it’s 95%.