4 ms·

We - in Sweden - noticed this when we saw our electricity prices go through the roof due to those interconnects enabling German prices to trickle back up the li

We - in Sweden - noticed this when we saw our electricity prices go through the roof due to those interconnects enabling German prices to trickle back up the lines. Thanks to the boneheaded "green" politicos in Germany shutting down nuclear power plants we'll be paying more for our electricity in the coming years. Please, German neighbours, vote out those watermelons and put some sense back in to the Bundestag.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lispm 4y ago
If nuclear is so great in Sweden, why were so many plants closed there?
- illiarian 4y ago
  Politics. Then politics. Then FUD and more politics. As a result last year energy prices shot up and there was nothing to counterbalance energy shortages.
  - lispm 4y ago
    Energy is always politics. Nuclear has been expensive in Sweden.
    - illiarian 4y ago
      And yet power plant closures were entirely due to politics, not the cost. Now the price of energy in Sweden quintuples depending on demand: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1271491/sweden-monthly-wholesale-electricity-price/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1271491/sweden-monthly-w... I am just so glad that the expensive energy is out of the picture. (That was sarcasm, I chose to pay for electricity coming from nuclear, and it's not meanigfully more expensive than other types)
    - the_third_wave 4y ago
      Nuclear power in Sweden was expensive due to the "effektskatt" [1] (power output tax) which was levied specifically on nuclear power, ostensibly to pay for dismantling nuclear power plants after they were shut down. This tax made up about 25% of the production costs in the end [2]. [1] https://naringslivets-medieinstitut.se/det-var-marknaden-som-stangde-karnkraften/ https://naringslivets-medieinstitut.se/det-var-marknaden-som... [2] https://skatteupproret.se/skatt-pa-karnkraft/ https://skatteupproret.se/skatt-pa-karnkraft/
      - Krasnol 4y ago
        So it actually showed the real price of nuclear since dismantling is part of it.
        the_third_wave 4y ago
        The taxes and additional payments into the special fund established for this purpose [1] already cover the prospected costs of dismantling all nuclear power stations and treating/storing the waste (spent fuel as well as materials from dismantled reactors). While the additional "effektskatt" has been abolished in 2018 the payments to SKB continue. The total costs are estimated to end up at 171 billion kr allowing for a safety margin and taking price increases into account. Remaining costs as of 2024 are estimated to be 124 billion kr. The fund currently holds 80 billion kr, the additional 'effektskatt' brought in 38.5 billion kr, securities posted by the companies which run the nuclear power stations stand for another 59 billion kr. Payments into the fund continue, the proceeds of which are invested in state bonds and on the stock market. Even without these continuing payments and investments and disregarding compound interest the costs for dismantling current reactors and treating all waste has been paid already. As it stands the plan is for the remaining reactors to run until ~2045 [2]. Payments into the SKB fund will continue so by the time the last reactor is shut down the costs will have been paid several times over. [1] https://skb.se/det-har-ar-skb/finansiering/ https://skb.se/det-har-ar-skb/finansiering/ [2] https://www.karnavfallsradet.se/karnavfall-och-slutforvaring/oversikt-avveckling-av-reaktorer/reaktorer-som-ska-avvecklas https://www.karnavfallsradet.se/karnavfall-och-slutforvaring...
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  Due to the same "green" politicos having been in power the last 8 years [1]. The power plants they closed could have been kept in service - they had been recertified up to 2035 - but they closed them anyway. This was a political decision, not one based on demand - support for nuclear power has surged in Sweden - or technological deficiencies. [1] https://08nytt.se/naringsliv/mp-erkanner-avvecklat-karnkraft-tillsammans-med-s/ https://08nytt.se/naringsliv/mp-erkanner-avvecklat-karnkraft...
_ph_ 4y ago
Just to avoid any misunderstandings, the schedule to close all nuclear reactors in Germany by the end of 2022 was set by CDU/CSU together with the FDP. Which then went on to curb the buildup of renewables.
Krasnol 4y ago
Back? Are you even aware that no party besides a small fascist party want nuclear back or did anything in recent years to stop the exit? The previous Government (today's largest opposition) had 16 years to stop the nuclear exit. They didn't. Even before Fukushima. I wonder where you got this approach from since you've obviously not come up with it by yourself through research.
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  > Are you even aware that no party besides a small fascist party want nuclear back A poll [1] done in 2008 found that 46% of the German population wanted to keep nuclear power online. A poll [2] done in 2021 found that 53% of respondents saw a role for nuclear power in the "energiewende" (changeover from fossil to other power sources), 22% of them wanted nuclear to play a major role, 31% a smaller role. In a poll done [3] in 2022 72% of the respondents wanted to postpone the shutdown of the remaining nuclear plants. If your claim about that small fascist party holds truth the next Bundeskanzler will come from AfD. I guess this is not the case so either those other parties are not in line with their potential constituents or your claim of only AfD - which I assume is the small fascist party you're referring to - wanting nuclear power "back" (which is true by now, it used to be "wants to keep") is in error. Time will tell but in the meanwhile it is to be hoped that the next winter is a mild one. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/46-percent-of-germans-want-nuclear-power-survey-says/a-3413767 https://www.dw.com/en/46-percent-of-germans-want-nuclear-pow... [2] https://yougov.de/topics/technology/articles-reports/2021/12/08/knapp-die-halfte-der-deutschen-ist-grundsatzlich-o https://yougov.de/topics/technology/articles-reports/2021/12... [3] https://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/special/bayern-monitor/umfrage-zur-atomkraft-in-deutschland-mehrheit-fuer-verlaengerung-id62012496.html https://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/special/bayern-monitor/...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

lispm 4y ago

If nuclear is so great in Sweden, why were so many plants closed there?

illiarian 4y ago
Politics. Then politics. Then FUD and more politics. As a result last year energy prices shot up and there was nothing to counterbalance energy shortages.
- lispm 4y ago
  Energy is always politics. Nuclear has been expensive in Sweden.
  - illiarian 4y ago
    And yet power plant closures were entirely due to politics, not the cost. Now the price of energy in Sweden quintuples depending on demand: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1271491/sweden-monthly-wholesale-electricity-price/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1271491/sweden-monthly-w... I am just so glad that the expensive energy is out of the picture. (That was sarcasm, I chose to pay for electricity coming from nuclear, and it's not meanigfully more expensive than other types)
  - the_third_wave 4y ago
    Nuclear power in Sweden was expensive due to the "effektskatt" [1] (power output tax) which was levied specifically on nuclear power, ostensibly to pay for dismantling nuclear power plants after they were shut down. This tax made up about 25% of the production costs in the end [2]. [1] https://naringslivets-medieinstitut.se/det-var-marknaden-som-stangde-karnkraften/ https://naringslivets-medieinstitut.se/det-var-marknaden-som... [2] https://skatteupproret.se/skatt-pa-karnkraft/ https://skatteupproret.se/skatt-pa-karnkraft/
    - Krasnol 4y ago
      So it actually showed the real price of nuclear since dismantling is part of it.
      - the_third_wave 4y ago
        The taxes and additional payments into the special fund established for this purpose [1] already cover the prospected costs of dismantling all nuclear power stations and treating/storing the waste (spent fuel as well as materials from dismantled reactors). While the additional "effektskatt" has been abolished in 2018 the payments to SKB continue. The total costs are estimated to end up at 171 billion kr allowing for a safety margin and taking price increases into account. Remaining costs as of 2024 are estimated to be 124 billion kr. The fund currently holds 80 billion kr, the additional 'effektskatt' brought in 38.5 billion kr, securities posted by the companies which run the nuclear power stations stand for another 59 billion kr. Payments into the fund continue, the proceeds of which are invested in state bonds and on the stock market. Even without these continuing payments and investments and disregarding compound interest the costs for dismantling current reactors and treating all waste has been paid already. As it stands the plan is for the remaining reactors to run until ~2045 [2]. Payments into the SKB fund will continue so by the time the last reactor is shut down the costs will have been paid several times over. [1] https://skb.se/det-har-ar-skb/finansiering/ https://skb.se/det-har-ar-skb/finansiering/ [2] https://www.karnavfallsradet.se/karnavfall-och-slutforvaring/oversikt-avveckling-av-reaktorer/reaktorer-som-ska-avvecklas https://www.karnavfallsradet.se/karnavfall-och-slutforvaring...
the_third_wave 4y ago
Due to the same "green" politicos having been in power the last 8 years [1]. The power plants they closed could have been kept in service - they had been recertified up to 2035 - but they closed them anyway. This was a political decision, not one based on demand - support for nuclear power has surged in Sweden - or technological deficiencies. [1] https://08nytt.se/naringsliv/mp-erkanner-avvecklat-karnkraft-tillsammans-med-s/ https://08nytt.se/naringsliv/mp-erkanner-avvecklat-karnkraft...

_ph_ 4y ago

Just to avoid any misunderstandings, the schedule to close all nuclear reactors in Germany by the end of 2022 was set by CDU/CSU together with the FDP. Which then went on to curb the buildup of renewables.

Krasnol 4y ago

Back? Are you even aware that no party besides a small fascist party want nuclear back or did anything in recent years to stop the exit? The previous Government (today's largest opposition) had 16 years to stop the nuclear exit. They didn't. Even before Fukushima. I wonder where you got this approach from since you've obviously not come up with it by yourself through research.

the_third_wave 4y ago
> Are you even aware that no party besides a small fascist party want nuclear back A poll [1] done in 2008 found that 46% of the German population wanted to keep nuclear power online. A poll [2] done in 2021 found that 53% of respondents saw a role for nuclear power in the "energiewende" (changeover from fossil to other power sources), 22% of them wanted nuclear to play a major role, 31% a smaller role. In a poll done [3] in 2022 72% of the respondents wanted to postpone the shutdown of the remaining nuclear plants. If your claim about that small fascist party holds truth the next Bundeskanzler will come from AfD. I guess this is not the case so either those other parties are not in line with their potential constituents or your claim of only AfD - which I assume is the small fascist party you're referring to - wanting nuclear power "back" (which is true by now, it used to be "wants to keep") is in error. Time will tell but in the meanwhile it is to be hoped that the next winter is a mild one. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/46-percent-of-germans-want-nuclear-power-survey-says/a-3413767 https://www.dw.com/en/46-percent-of-germans-want-nuclear-pow... [2] https://yougov.de/topics/technology/articles-reports/2021/12/08/knapp-die-halfte-der-deutschen-ist-grundsatzlich-o https://yougov.de/topics/technology/articles-reports/2021/12... [3] https://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/special/bayern-monitor/umfrage-zur-atomkraft-in-deutschland-mehrheit-fuer-verlaengerung-id62012496.html https://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/special/bayern-monitor/...