5 ms·

How can it leaks? Do you have any source? Well you had some of them turned off for maintanance, that happens.

by kvgr 3y ago

eric-burel 3y ago
Look for the Tricastin plant I don't know enough to answer precisely but it has leaked recently and a few years ago. Of course it doesn't leak uranium, but other byproducts, which not a sign of a well managed plant. Some were stopped not just maintenance but the discovery of micro-breaches caused by maintenance decades ago. That's actually a sign of proper management, but a counter-argument to reliability.
- illiarian 3y ago
  - "one of the plant regularly leaks radioactive material" - "Look for the Tricastin plant I don't know enough to answer precisely but it has leaked recently and a few years ago. Of course it doesn't leak uranium" So, your original statement was an untruth. Or "alternative facts" > of micro-breaches caused by maintenance decades ago. That's actually a sign of proper management, but a counter-argument to reliability. So you mean microbreaches were made decades ago, the plant has operated for decades with no issues, and you call that unreliable?
  - polishdude20 3y ago
    This thread is a great example of how the meanings of words can be taken differently by different people. "Unreliable" is less of a description and more of a flag. Either it is or isn't. But the original commenter's threshold for unreliable = true is much much lower than most people's as illuminated in this discussion. It seems like this is a daily occurrence online and in person.
    - formerly_proven 3y ago
      I'm guessing "micro breaches" refers to hydrogen-induced cracks. Media likes to talk about it in bigly, threatening terms such as "THOUSANDS OF CRACKS FOUND IN REACTOR VESSEL" - of course anyone with half a brain starts to wonder "aren't these PWRs?". Much like people like to write headlines such as "HUNDREDS OF NUCLEAR INCIDENTS AT NPP XYZ", where "nuclear incident" means "reported event", which includes such dramatic incidents as "a backup valve in some secondary circuit had to be replaced because it was stuck" or "a bird flew into the transformer, tripping protection and taking a block offline".
      - Brusco_RF 3y ago
        Reminds me of the hysteria surrounding microplastics. I saw an article that once that said there are X many thousands of microplastic particles in a cubic meter of seawater at certain locations. They were actually counting individual particles! Why? because expressing plastics as a % of total mass or volume makes it so negligible as to not be a headline.
      - sundvor 3y ago
        That's like reading headlines about TESLA RECALLS every time they do an OTA update that fixes a minor compliance issue.
- brucethemoose2 3y ago
  Yep, a 1980 PWR... sounds about right. Modern reactor designs are so much better. They are also basically nonexistent because everyone stopped building reactors :(
  - formerly_proven 3y ago
    Even the old PWRs can be operationally unproblematic if you do it right. The German Pre-Konvoi and Konvoi fleet had pretty good stats. I'm not sure if Grohnde (shut down in 2021) is still the NPP block with the highest total production (500 TWhr) or if another block managed to lap it. Overall capacity factor of these was around 90 %. The US fleet is similar iirc. The French fleet has been running around 65-70 % CF for years, pretty bad, but clearly not root caused by the tech branch.
Lacerda69 3y ago
[dead]
blibble 3y ago
all nuclear power stations emit small amounts of liquid and gas radwaste as part of normal operation mostly tritium and tritiated water that has been activated in the coolant circuits (practically impossible to separate) but some other isotopes (carbon-14, caesium-137) here's the environmental permit for the UK's most modern power station: https://consult.environment-agency.gov.uk/nuclear/consultation-on-the-variation-of-permit-xb3538dh-t/results/xb3539dh-v007decisiondocumentshortform-finalversion.pdf https://consult.environment-agency.gov.uk/nuclear/consultati... solid radwaste is kept under lock and key though and the total volume of radioactive waste produced is WAY WAY WAY less than that produced burning fossil fuels (turns out coal is reasonably radioactive)
- fsh 3y ago
  No, coal is barely radioactive at all. The small traces of Thorium and Uranium are completely negligible. An old study from 1978 has estimated that nuclear reactors emit somewhat more radiation than coal power plants, but the levels are overall insignificant [1]. This is only about emissions though. The radioactive waste produced by nuclear power plants has many many orders of magnitude more activity than the emissions. [1] https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.202.4372.1045 https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.202.4372.104...
  - blibble 3y ago
    > This is only about emissions though. The radioactive waste produced by nuclear power plants has many many orders of magnitude more activity than the emissions. yes I should have probably said "emission" not waste > No, coal is barely radioactive at all. but you need to burn orders of magnitude more of it, producing literal mountains of coal ash and exhaust emissions whereas for nuclear the waste is an extremely small volume, of which almost 100% of is captured scrubbing technologies have also improved since 1978, and scrubbing not-very-much thoroughly is a much easier than scrubbing vast amounts not-very-well
    - pfdietz 3y ago
      The radioactivity mobilized by U mining for LWRs is about an order of magnitude more than that mobilized by coal combustion, per unit of work produced.

How can it leaks? Do you have any source? Well you had some of them turned off for maintanance, that happens.

by kvgr 3y ago

How can it leaks? Do you have any source? Well you had some of them turned off for maintanance, that happens.

Look for the Tricastin plant I don't know enough to answer precisely but it has leaked recently and a few years ago. Of course it doesn't leak uranium, but other byproducts, which not a sign of a well managed plant. Some were stopped not just maintenance but the discovery of micro-breaches caused by maintenance decades ago. That's actually a sign of proper management, but a counter-argument to reliability.

illiarian 3y ago
- "one of the plant regularly leaks radioactive material" - "Look for the Tricastin plant I don't know enough to answer precisely but it has leaked recently and a few years ago. Of course it doesn't leak uranium" So, your original statement was an untruth. Or "alternative facts" > of micro-breaches caused by maintenance decades ago. That's actually a sign of proper management, but a counter-argument to reliability. So you mean microbreaches were made decades ago, the plant has operated for decades with no issues, and you call that unreliable?
- polishdude20 3y ago
  This thread is a great example of how the meanings of words can be taken differently by different people. "Unreliable" is less of a description and more of a flag. Either it is or isn't. But the original commenter's threshold for unreliable = true is much much lower than most people's as illuminated in this discussion. It seems like this is a daily occurrence online and in person.
  - formerly_proven 3y ago
    I'm guessing "micro breaches" refers to hydrogen-induced cracks. Media likes to talk about it in bigly, threatening terms such as "THOUSANDS OF CRACKS FOUND IN REACTOR VESSEL" - of course anyone with half a brain starts to wonder "aren't these PWRs?". Much like people like to write headlines such as "HUNDREDS OF NUCLEAR INCIDENTS AT NPP XYZ", where "nuclear incident" means "reported event", which includes such dramatic incidents as "a backup valve in some secondary circuit had to be replaced because it was stuck" or "a bird flew into the transformer, tripping protection and taking a block offline".
    - Brusco_RF 3y ago
      Reminds me of the hysteria surrounding microplastics. I saw an article that once that said there are X many thousands of microplastic particles in a cubic meter of seawater at certain locations. They were actually counting individual particles! Why? because expressing plastics as a % of total mass or volume makes it so negligible as to not be a headline.
    - sundvor 3y ago
      That's like reading headlines about TESLA RECALLS every time they do an OTA update that fixes a minor compliance issue.
brucethemoose2 3y ago
Yep, a 1980 PWR... sounds about right. Modern reactor designs are so much better. They are also basically nonexistent because everyone stopped building reactors :(
- formerly_proven 3y ago
  Even the old PWRs can be operationally unproblematic if you do it right. The German Pre-Konvoi and Konvoi fleet had pretty good stats. I'm not sure if Grohnde (shut down in 2021) is still the NPP block with the highest total production (500 TWhr) or if another block managed to lap it. Overall capacity factor of these was around 90 %. The US fleet is similar iirc. The French fleet has been running around 65-70 % CF for years, pretty bad, but clearly not root caused by the tech branch.

Lacerda69 3y ago

[dead]

blibble 3y ago

all nuclear power stations emit small amounts of liquid and gas radwaste as part of normal operation mostly tritium and tritiated water that has been activated in the coolant circuits (practically impossible to separate) but some other isotopes (carbon-14, caesium-137) here's the environmental permit for the UK's most modern power station: https://consult.environment-agency.gov.uk/nuclear/consultation-on-the-variation-of-permit-xb3538dh-t/results/xb3539dh-v007decisiondocumentshortform-finalversion.pdf https://consult.environment-agency.gov.uk/nuclear/consultati... solid radwaste is kept under lock and key though and the total volume of radioactive waste produced is WAY WAY WAY less than that produced burning fossil fuels (turns out coal is reasonably radioactive)

fsh 3y ago
No, coal is barely radioactive at all. The small traces of Thorium and Uranium are completely negligible. An old study from 1978 has estimated that nuclear reactors emit somewhat more radiation than coal power plants, but the levels are overall insignificant [1]. This is only about emissions though. The radioactive waste produced by nuclear power plants has many many orders of magnitude more activity than the emissions. [1] https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.202.4372.1045 https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.202.4372.104...
- blibble 3y ago
  > This is only about emissions though. The radioactive waste produced by nuclear power plants has many many orders of magnitude more activity than the emissions. yes I should have probably said "emission" not waste > No, coal is barely radioactive at all. but you need to burn orders of magnitude more of it, producing literal mountains of coal ash and exhaust emissions whereas for nuclear the waste is an extremely small volume, of which almost 100% of is captured scrubbing technologies have also improved since 1978, and scrubbing not-very-much thoroughly is a much easier than scrubbing vast amounts not-very-well
  - pfdietz 3y ago
    The radioactivity mobilized by U mining for LWRs is about an order of magnitude more than that mobilized by coal combustion, per unit of work produced.