4 ms·

I am a bit confused: are we going to get more similar posts (which is tangent to some proselytism, under the premise of well wishing?) for each and every religi

I am a bit confused: are we going to get more similar posts (which is tangent to some proselytism, under the premise of well wishing?) for each and every religious faith major event around the globe? I am saying this as a former believer (and holding no grudge), definitely aware of the fine line between sharing and pushing cultural items, and balancing the two rather equally in a diverse team. EDIT: actually, it's a topic in itself in a matter of company/team management. I saw a similar concern grow in one of my older team in a previous job, because the company "inclusion and diversity" department held a _very_ unbalanced and awkward take in this regard, talking a lot about some religious/cultural items, and ignoring quite a few others (from different equally present countries of origin and faiths), actually resulting in a fracture in the self-perceived image of the team. That's really a delicate matter.

wmeredith 4y ago
[flagged]
- HopenHeyHi 4y ago
  [flagged]
- dang 4y ago
  Religion-related topics are not anathema here, although religious flamewar is, and of course it's not easy to keep the two separate. Religion has been (and is) such a big part of humanity that it would be inconsistent with HN's core value of intellectual curiosity to try to declare it all off topic (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=curiosity%20optimiz%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...). p.s. Please let's not go into name-calling like "fruit-cakery". You can make your substantive points without that!
  - HopenHeyHi 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - dang 4y ago
      Your comment proves what I'm saying. It's obviously name-calling to refer to people's beliefs as nutty-crazy-idiotic. In fact the latter word is the canonical example the HN guidelines give for this: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Thanks for the interesting etymology!
      - HopenHeyHi 4y ago
        Dang, respectfully, you should ask him what he means by it because I honestly read it differently. I think he is calling the well wishing weird/phony as most people here are irreligious / not muslims / haven't had a clue about Eid Mubarak until yesterday. Anyway, I can't be sure either but my point is it absolutely would not have occurred to me until you said it. Caveat: English is not my first language but obviously is a bit far fetched.
        dang 4y ago
        We have to moderate by effects, not intent (which often we can't know); moreover we have to moderate by effects based on past experience. In terms of effects based on past experience I promise you that referring to religion this way is the sort of thing that leads to flamewars. It is not a close call. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=effects%20intent%20by%3Adang&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
        HopenHeyHi 4y ago
        That is quite a bit more nuanced and reasonable that the original moderation feedback given. You certainly appeared to know his intent when you outright accused him of name calling. > p.s. Please let's not go into name-calling like "fruit-cakery". You can make your substantive points without that! Heed your own advice?
  - wmeredith 4y ago
    Sorry for calling it fruit-cakery. I can't edit my comment now, or I would. I'd leave the rest. I think celebrating religion has no place here, but I'm clearly in the minority. Do I have an intellectual curiosity? Yes. But I'm also curious about cancer. The self-congratulatory feel-good tone of this post and its comments don't sit right with me, but obviously, a bunch of people are into it.
dang 4y ago
It's going too far to interpret this as "tangent to proselytism". People can wish each other well without coming close to that. The occasional celebratory post is fine on HN. If it were to become repetitive, it would get tedious quickly and we would downweight such posts in keeping with standard practice (see [1] and [2] about that). [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=curiosity%20repetition%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=follow-up%20downweight&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- Juliate 4y ago
  Well noted, makes sense this way, thanks for the feedback!
- kjellsbells 4y ago
  Humbly suggest that HN converts these types of temporal event posts into megathreads a la reddit so there is one root to the discussion, and down-weights one line replies that are simply repeating the sentiment of the original poster ('happy X to you too', etc). Don't know if that is possible of course. I think the HN readership would welcome a way to use a post to explore cultural aspects, ask respectful questions, etc, but dont need a slurry of one line celebrations.
  - dang 4y ago
    I agree that they can add up to a lot of noise but at the same time their spirit is nice enough that it feels churlish to try to negate them. In cases like this we usually go by what pg wrote 15 years ago: Empty comments can be ok if they're positive. There's nothing wrong with submitting a comment saying just "Thanks." What we especially discourage are comments that are empty and negative—comments that are mere name-calling. https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
- zvmaz 4y ago
  For my part, I did interpret it as clear proselytism: > A note on Ramadan. To those interested in intermittent fasting, longevity, and coming back to a more human experience not drowning in technology, food and consumerism I would say check it out! After over 20 years of doing it I'm still learning something new every year, or I should say, unlearning bad habits we've created for ourselves as a society through abundance.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

wmeredith 4y ago

[flagged]

HopenHeyHi 4y ago
[flagged]
dang 4y ago
Religion-related topics are not anathema here, although religious flamewar is, and of course it's not easy to keep the two separate. Religion has been (and is) such a big part of humanity that it would be inconsistent with HN's core value of intellectual curiosity to try to declare it all off topic (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=curiosity%20optimiz%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...). p.s. Please let's not go into name-calling like "fruit-cakery". You can make your substantive points without that!
- HopenHeyHi 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - dang 4y ago
    Your comment proves what I'm saying. It's obviously name-calling to refer to people's beliefs as nutty-crazy-idiotic. In fact the latter word is the canonical example the HN guidelines give for this: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Thanks for the interesting etymology!
    - HopenHeyHi 4y ago
      Dang, respectfully, you should ask him what he means by it because I honestly read it differently. I think he is calling the well wishing weird/phony as most people here are irreligious / not muslims / haven't had a clue about Eid Mubarak until yesterday. Anyway, I can't be sure either but my point is it absolutely would not have occurred to me until you said it. Caveat: English is not my first language but obviously is a bit far fetched.
      - dang 4y ago
        We have to moderate by effects, not intent (which often we can't know); moreover we have to moderate by effects based on past experience. In terms of effects based on past experience I promise you that referring to religion this way is the sort of thing that leads to flamewars. It is not a close call. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=effects%20intent%20by%3Adang&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
        HopenHeyHi 4y ago
        That is quite a bit more nuanced and reasonable that the original moderation feedback given. You certainly appeared to know his intent when you outright accused him of name calling. > p.s. Please let's not go into name-calling like "fruit-cakery". You can make your substantive points without that! Heed your own advice?
- wmeredith 4y ago
  Sorry for calling it fruit-cakery. I can't edit my comment now, or I would. I'd leave the rest. I think celebrating religion has no place here, but I'm clearly in the minority. Do I have an intellectual curiosity? Yes. But I'm also curious about cancer. The self-congratulatory feel-good tone of this post and its comments don't sit right with me, but obviously, a bunch of people are into it.

dang 4y ago

It's going too far to interpret this as "tangent to proselytism". People can wish each other well without coming close to that. The occasional celebratory post is fine on HN. If it were to become repetitive, it would get tedious quickly and we would downweight such posts in keeping with standard practice (see [1] and [2] about that). [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=curiosity%20repetition%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=follow-up%20downweight&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Juliate 4y ago
Well noted, makes sense this way, thanks for the feedback!
kjellsbells 4y ago
Humbly suggest that HN converts these types of temporal event posts into megathreads a la reddit so there is one root to the discussion, and down-weights one line replies that are simply repeating the sentiment of the original poster ('happy X to you too', etc). Don't know if that is possible of course. I think the HN readership would welcome a way to use a post to explore cultural aspects, ask respectful questions, etc, but dont need a slurry of one line celebrations.
- dang 4y ago
  I agree that they can add up to a lot of noise but at the same time their spirit is nice enough that it feels churlish to try to negate them. In cases like this we usually go by what pg wrote 15 years ago: Empty comments can be ok if they're positive. There's nothing wrong with submitting a comment saying just "Thanks." What we especially discourage are comments that are empty and negative—comments that are mere name-calling. https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
zvmaz 4y ago
For my part, I did interpret it as clear proselytism: > A note on Ramadan. To those interested in intermittent fasting, longevity, and coming back to a more human experience not drowning in technology, food and consumerism I would say check it out! After over 20 years of doing it I'm still learning something new every year, or I should say, unlearning bad habits we've created for ourselves as a society through abundance.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]