3 ms·

> Say you, for whatever incomprehensible reason, need to access a file named .., which would normally be resolved to the parent directory during normalisation,

> Say you, for whatever incomprehensible reason, need to access a file named .., which would normally be resolved to the parent directory during normalisation, you can do so via a literal device path. Oh no. No. Windows allows files to be named `..`?!

Karellen 4y ago
> Windows allows files to be named `..`?! Maybe not? Under unix, if you create a symlink to a directory, e.g. `~/syslogs` is a symlink to `/var/log`, then `..` can be used to traverse the "true" parent directory. So `~/syslogs/../lib` will traverse `/var/log/..` and refer to `/var/lib`, not to `~/lib`. However, a "normalising" path interpreter will just take something like `~/syslogs/../lib` and change it to `~/lib` without consulting the filesystem. Given that (AIUI) Windows has supported symlinks for a while now (?), it's possible that files called `..` aren't actually allowed, but the ability to access `..` is still necessary. (Notably, the article does point out that filenames ending in `.` are disallowed - which should exclude `..` as a name one can give a file.)
jagged-chisel 4y ago
Seems like that violates the "can't end in a period" rule
- chungy 4y ago
  Just using Cygwin will show that file names can indeed end in periods (and spaces). The article is very much restraining itself to the standard limitations imposed by the Win32 API, but not what the operating system actually allows. Case sensitivity has always been a thing, since Windows NT 3.1, for example; the "forbidden" characters are not so forbidden with the right file access APIs.
Jap2-0 4y ago
I can't find a way to create one - so if Windows allows that, it's begrudgingly at best. You can put `..` earlier in the file name, though.
ChrisSD 4y ago
Yes you can create files named `.` and `..`. However, any sensible filesystem driver will reject that name (spoiler: there does exist drivers that aren't sensible).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
jaclaz 4y ago
There are even more "strange" cases, JFYI: https://msfn.org/board/topic/131103-win_nt~bt-can-be-omitted/?do=findComment&comment=842843 https://msfn.org/board/topic/131103-win_nt~bt-can-be-omitted...
garaetjjte 4y ago
Maybe? https://i.imgur.com/ebo4Nd8.png https://i.imgur.com/ebo4Nd8.png But seriously: no, at least not on NTFS. This filename does have trailing space. Though it is enough to defeat Explorer, you cannot move or delete it and properties window is broken.
rxtdc 4y ago
Preferring a minimal look (and being immature) my desktop shortcuts for "This PC" and "Recycle Bin" have been renamed with two of the many invisible characters that windows allows. I also routinely use single extended unicode characters as root folder names and identifiers for various purposes. Using a search programme 'Everything", it's a lot easier to find things if I use something like pilcrow symbol as the root folder for any directory dedicated to text documents, when the alternative is to wade through results for 'documents', 'text', 'reading' or any combination of those words. For the same reason, I find I can make much more memorable associations. It helps me harness things relationally. I can preserve uncertainty and avoid the frustration and negativity of trying to make shades of grey and rose fit black and white patterns. It does sound a bit new age, but there's no doubt in my mind, flat heirachical alphanumeric patterns are restrictive, prescriptive, insufficient. For example, a lot of artists actively work to defy pidgeon holing. I still need identifiers. I mean, even if I wasn't into 'bleeding edge' culture, restrictions, problems and frustrations are the normal experience. I think this is illustrated by the unsatisfactory experiences that people find when they try to make id3 tagging "work". It's as close as I can get to banishing the pervasive 'what-if' heartbreak of WinFS being cancelled. Sadly it doesn't help at all make up for what 'Semantic Web' promised. But that's probably why I'm a believer in GPT and the like. Is it just me that can't help thinking they are products that have arisen from the need to make non-semantic computing useful again?

Karellen 4y ago

> Windows allows files to be named `..`?! Maybe not? Under unix, if you create a symlink to a directory, e.g. `~/syslogs` is a symlink to `/var/log`, then `..` can be used to traverse the "true" parent directory. So `~/syslogs/../lib` will traverse `/var/log/..` and refer to `/var/lib`, not to `~/lib`. However, a "normalising" path interpreter will just take something like `~/syslogs/../lib` and change it to `~/lib` without consulting the filesystem. Given that (AIUI) Windows has supported symlinks for a while now (?), it's possible that files called `..` aren't actually allowed, but the ability to access `..` is still necessary. (Notably, the article does point out that filenames ending in `.` are disallowed - which should exclude `..` as a name one can give a file.)

jagged-chisel 4y ago

Seems like that violates the "can't end in a period" rule

chungy 4y ago
Just using Cygwin will show that file names can indeed end in periods (and spaces). The article is very much restraining itself to the standard limitations imposed by the Win32 API, but not what the operating system actually allows. Case sensitivity has always been a thing, since Windows NT 3.1, for example; the "forbidden" characters are not so forbidden with the right file access APIs.

Jap2-0 4y ago

I can't find a way to create one - so if Windows allows that, it's begrudgingly at best. You can put `..` earlier in the file name, though.

ChrisSD 4y ago

Yes you can create files named `.` and `..`. However, any sensible filesystem driver will reject that name (spoiler: there does exist drivers that aren't sensible).

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

jaclaz 4y ago

There are even more "strange" cases, JFYI: https://msfn.org/board/topic/131103-win_nt~bt-can-be-omitted/?do=findComment&comment=842843 https://msfn.org/board/topic/131103-win_nt~bt-can-be-omitted...

garaetjjte 4y ago

Maybe? https://i.imgur.com/ebo4Nd8.png https://i.imgur.com/ebo4Nd8.png But seriously: no, at least not on NTFS. This filename does have trailing space. Though it is enough to defeat Explorer, you cannot move or delete it and properties window is broken.

rxtdc 4y ago

Preferring a minimal look (and being immature) my desktop shortcuts for "This PC" and "Recycle Bin" have been renamed with two of the many invisible characters that windows allows. I also routinely use single extended unicode characters as root folder names and identifiers for various purposes. Using a search programme 'Everything", it's a lot easier to find things if I use something like pilcrow symbol as the root folder for any directory dedicated to text documents, when the alternative is to wade through results for 'documents', 'text', 'reading' or any combination of those words. For the same reason, I find I can make much more memorable associations. It helps me harness things relationally. I can preserve uncertainty and avoid the frustration and negativity of trying to make shades of grey and rose fit black and white patterns. It does sound a bit new age, but there's no doubt in my mind, flat heirachical alphanumeric patterns are restrictive, prescriptive, insufficient. For example, a lot of artists actively work to defy pidgeon holing. I still need identifiers. I mean, even if I wasn't into 'bleeding edge' culture, restrictions, problems and frustrations are the normal experience. I think this is illustrated by the unsatisfactory experiences that people find when they try to make id3 tagging "work". It's as close as I can get to banishing the pervasive 'what-if' heartbreak of WinFS being cancelled. Sadly it doesn't help at all make up for what 'Semantic Web' promised. But that's probably why I'm a believer in GPT and the like. Is it just me that can't help thinking they are products that have arisen from the need to make non-semantic computing useful again?