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Lack of fitness is the big national health problem, but the first part of the equation is the real stickler. A fat person who is forced to run and do pushups wi

Lack of fitness is the big national health problem, but the first part of the equation is the real stickler. A fat person who is forced to run and do pushups with a controlled diet can always lose weight: but an unwilling person will never join the military voluntarily. Why are so many people unwilling to join? It's sort of crazy that the military is having trouble recruiting in down economic times: they're the one entity that is always able to hire lots of people regardless of how the economic climate is doing. IMO, the pool of people who would want to join the military would greatly expand if other things were done: > The brass is doubling down on "woke messaging" for recruitment. You may or may not agree with this personally, but there's zero doubt that this is in conflict with the ideals of the kinds of people who traditionally want to join the military. > The country's leadership seems to be dead set on, at the very least, a proxy war with Russia. Potentially risking your life to protect your family from real danger is one thing, but few sane people want to seek out unnecessary war for the benefit of the military industrial complex. > Whether you think the Covid vaccines are good or bad risk-management assessments, there's no doubt that a significant fraction of the country do not see it that way and will not put themselves in a position to potentially take it. Many people don't think it's necessary and don't trust it, but the administration can't seem to let go of the other group of people they're simping for: Big Pharma. PS: I welcome downvotes if you tell me why my analysis is incorrect, not simply because you disagree with it.

ghaff 3y ago
I didn't downvote you but it seems as if there are more obvious explanations such as low unemployment and higher salaries for low-skill jobs--making signing up for the military with all that implies a less desirable option for a lot of people who now have better alternatives. And "woke messaging"? A proxy war with Russia that US troops are not involved in--certainly relative to the US military situation overseas in the past couple of decades? And lots of private companies required COVID shots to remain employed. So, yes, those seem like largely irrelevant reasons.
- logicalmonster 3y ago
  > And "woke messaging"? To fully explore this idea, I'd have to say some things that are verbotten on HN, but suffice it to say that there's a big difference between the policy of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and going full on into LGBTQPIA+ that the current military appears to be going on. This kind of thing may have an impression on the kinds of young men that might want to join the military. (as a very small supporting data point on this, look at men's declining entry to colleges). Again, you don't have to agree or disagree with it, I'm only pointing out factors in the conversation that might not get brought up otherwise. These are factors to a non-trivial part of the population. > A proxy war with Russia that US troops are not involved in--certainly relative to the US military situation overseas in the past couple of decades? The wars of recent decades are a big factor, but I can say that this push against Russia also isn't helping. My opinion is that people want to defend their homes, but don't want to risk getting exploded in some unnecessary conflict. > And lots of private companies required COVID shots to remain employed. And many people hated this and sought out companies that didn't require them. You don't have to agree with refusing the vaccine, but I hope you understand that many people absolutely didn't want it and the military's insistence on injecting people with this doesn't help among some people. > So, yes, those seem like largely irrelevant reasons. I strongly disagree with your analysis, but thank you for your polite and honest thoughts at least.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    > there's a big difference between the policy of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and going full on into LGBTQPIA+ that the current military appears to be going on. This kind of thing may have an impression on the kinds of young men that might want to join the military. I think historically there's probably been a lot of bigoted people in the service, but I'm not sure we should set policy to specifically cater to them just to bump recruitment numbers. > The wars of recent decades are a big factor, but I can say that this push against Russia also isn't helping. My opinion is that people want to defend their homes, but don't want to risk getting exploded in some unnecessary conflict. I agree 100% that this is a major factor. I've spoken with many people who are willing to fight to defend their country, but aren't interested in ending up overseas defending oil fields. I don't think it's fair to say that the US is dead set on a war with Russia. Russia is the one invading our allies unprovoked, flooding the internet with disinformation and interfering in our elections. The US might not always respond well to Russia's antics, but I don't think the US is trying to start trouble. > You don't have to agree with refusing the vaccine, but I hope you understand that many people absolutely didn't want it and the military's insistence on injecting people with this doesn't help among some people. Military service requires a ton of vaccinations and so antivaxxers were never jumping at the chance to sign on. I'd even suggest that we're probably better off without them anyway. Anyone unwilling to take such a simple step to help protect themselves and their fellow Americans probably won't be the right person for the job, and certainly anyone who is still worried that it's going to turn them magnetic, or give them 5G powers, or worried that it's somehow horrifically dangerous even after 13 billion+ shots have been administered globally without much issue might not be someone whose judgement you want to depend on being able to make quick decisions in a critical situation.
Der_Einzige 3y ago
Sorry, but soldiers crying about the COVID vaccine while they get vaxxed against things like ANTHRAX and other non standard stuff is peak comedy to me. Talk about a bunch of special snowflakes if you draw the line at the COVID shots.
- logicalmonster 3y ago
  Please note that I don't wish to sidetrack this thread with a Covid debate. My goal here is not to debate Covid or the vaccines, but simply to point out some of the beliefs that exist, that you may not be aware of. 1) You do realize that many people who are against taking the Covid vaccine are not against taking all vaccines, right? Many people are specifically against taking the Covid vaccine for varied reasons including some of the the following: most people have already had Covid and many of them don't think any further medical treatment is warranted, some people might think that not enough time has passed to fully understand the long-term risks of the Covid vaccines, some people might not think that the risks from Covid outweigh the risks of the vaccine, some people are greatly creeped out by the government's insistence to try and vaccinate everybody when they normally can't give half a shit about our healthcare, and as more information about them is coming out over time it seems like the vaccines' benefits were oversold anyway. 2) Regarding a difference with things like the Anthrax vaccine, as far as I know, the Anthrax vaccine uses standard attenuated particles, has been tested over a far greater time period, there's no creepy push to force literally everybody to get it, and Anthrax is far more lethal leading to a radically different risk-management calculation. 3) I have a feeling that your kind of mentality is shared by many people who are in charge, and that lack of knowledge doesn't bode well for us.
hotpotamus 3y ago
I'd be a lot more worried about getting a .30 caliber shot than a covid shot personally. And then having to worry about healthcare for the effects of injury sustained on the job too. $30 something thousand a year (I have no idea what a private makes) isn't really going to do much to attract me either. I will say a proxy war does sound a lot more appealing than something like the Afghanistan conflict where you actually have to go and fight and all that. Did you see the WSJ-NORC survey recently? It seems that Americans have wised up that patriotism and religion don't pay the bills.

ghaff 3y ago

I didn't downvote you but it seems as if there are more obvious explanations such as low unemployment and higher salaries for low-skill jobs--making signing up for the military with all that implies a less desirable option for a lot of people who now have better alternatives. And "woke messaging"? A proxy war with Russia that US troops are not involved in--certainly relative to the US military situation overseas in the past couple of decades? And lots of private companies required COVID shots to remain employed. So, yes, those seem like largely irrelevant reasons.

logicalmonster 3y ago
> And "woke messaging"? To fully explore this idea, I'd have to say some things that are verbotten on HN, but suffice it to say that there's a big difference between the policy of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and going full on into LGBTQPIA+ that the current military appears to be going on. This kind of thing may have an impression on the kinds of young men that might want to join the military. (as a very small supporting data point on this, look at men's declining entry to colleges). Again, you don't have to agree or disagree with it, I'm only pointing out factors in the conversation that might not get brought up otherwise. These are factors to a non-trivial part of the population. > A proxy war with Russia that US troops are not involved in--certainly relative to the US military situation overseas in the past couple of decades? The wars of recent decades are a big factor, but I can say that this push against Russia also isn't helping. My opinion is that people want to defend their homes, but don't want to risk getting exploded in some unnecessary conflict. > And lots of private companies required COVID shots to remain employed. And many people hated this and sought out companies that didn't require them. You don't have to agree with refusing the vaccine, but I hope you understand that many people absolutely didn't want it and the military's insistence on injecting people with this doesn't help among some people. > So, yes, those seem like largely irrelevant reasons. I strongly disagree with your analysis, but thank you for your polite and honest thoughts at least.
- autoexec 3y ago
  > there's a big difference between the policy of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and going full on into LGBTQPIA+ that the current military appears to be going on. This kind of thing may have an impression on the kinds of young men that might want to join the military. I think historically there's probably been a lot of bigoted people in the service, but I'm not sure we should set policy to specifically cater to them just to bump recruitment numbers. > The wars of recent decades are a big factor, but I can say that this push against Russia also isn't helping. My opinion is that people want to defend their homes, but don't want to risk getting exploded in some unnecessary conflict. I agree 100% that this is a major factor. I've spoken with many people who are willing to fight to defend their country, but aren't interested in ending up overseas defending oil fields. I don't think it's fair to say that the US is dead set on a war with Russia. Russia is the one invading our allies unprovoked, flooding the internet with disinformation and interfering in our elections. The US might not always respond well to Russia's antics, but I don't think the US is trying to start trouble. > You don't have to agree with refusing the vaccine, but I hope you understand that many people absolutely didn't want it and the military's insistence on injecting people with this doesn't help among some people. Military service requires a ton of vaccinations and so antivaxxers were never jumping at the chance to sign on. I'd even suggest that we're probably better off without them anyway. Anyone unwilling to take such a simple step to help protect themselves and their fellow Americans probably won't be the right person for the job, and certainly anyone who is still worried that it's going to turn them magnetic, or give them 5G powers, or worried that it's somehow horrifically dangerous even after 13 billion+ shots have been administered globally without much issue might not be someone whose judgement you want to depend on being able to make quick decisions in a critical situation.

Der_Einzige 3y ago

Sorry, but soldiers crying about the COVID vaccine while they get vaxxed against things like ANTHRAX and other non standard stuff is peak comedy to me. Talk about a bunch of special snowflakes if you draw the line at the COVID shots.

logicalmonster 3y ago
Please note that I don't wish to sidetrack this thread with a Covid debate. My goal here is not to debate Covid or the vaccines, but simply to point out some of the beliefs that exist, that you may not be aware of. 1) You do realize that many people who are against taking the Covid vaccine are not against taking all vaccines, right? Many people are specifically against taking the Covid vaccine for varied reasons including some of the the following: most people have already had Covid and many of them don't think any further medical treatment is warranted, some people might think that not enough time has passed to fully understand the long-term risks of the Covid vaccines, some people might not think that the risks from Covid outweigh the risks of the vaccine, some people are greatly creeped out by the government's insistence to try and vaccinate everybody when they normally can't give half a shit about our healthcare, and as more information about them is coming out over time it seems like the vaccines' benefits were oversold anyway. 2) Regarding a difference with things like the Anthrax vaccine, as far as I know, the Anthrax vaccine uses standard attenuated particles, has been tested over a far greater time period, there's no creepy push to force literally everybody to get it, and Anthrax is far more lethal leading to a radically different risk-management calculation. 3) I have a feeling that your kind of mentality is shared by many people who are in charge, and that lack of knowledge doesn't bode well for us.

hotpotamus 3y ago

I'd be a lot more worried about getting a .30 caliber shot than a covid shot personally. And then having to worry about healthcare for the effects of injury sustained on the job too. $30 something thousand a year (I have no idea what a private makes) isn't really going to do much to attract me either. I will say a proxy war does sound a lot more appealing than something like the Afghanistan conflict where you actually have to go and fight and all that. Did you see the WSJ-NORC survey recently? It seems that Americans have wised up that patriotism and religion don't pay the bills.