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> Tough shit. China will just have to grow up. Turns out that they grew up and they don't really care about the same values that we do. Tough shit, indeed.

rektide 4y ago
The point of this article isnt to disagree with their insular close mindedness & lack of ability to process criticism or satire. The point is that because of economics we keep letting their conservative close minded views dictate what happens in the Western Democratic world. These conservative authoritarian approaches should have no quarter here, go against the values & rights the creators & owners of these sites arose from & should be supporting. It's a sad development & China should be the one having to eat tough shit.
- surgical_fire 4y ago
  > The point is that because of economics Economics is all that matters in this world. It feels even silly to have to spell it out when we are on a website funded by the pinnacle of capitalism, where money overrides principles day and night. China will not have to eat any tough shit while the economics is on their side. And before you object, I ask you to consider the device you are using to reply to me. I know where mine came from.
  - Paianni 4y ago
    > I know where mine came from. I doubt it, the sources of materials and stages of manufacturing for most advanced electronics are spread all over the world. I know my motherboard was made in Taiwan, my processor from Malaysia/Germany, but that's just the start.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    > Economics is all that matters in this world. It isn't. Ukraine is a current demonstration of that.
    - qtzaz 4y ago
      You mean the proxy war that the US is funding through NATO to make Europe stop buying Russian gas and buy American LNG instead? That very much sounds like economics to me!
      - clouddrover 4y ago
        No, I mean the war Russia created for itself when it invaded Ukraine for reason no better than Putin's vanity.
    - surgical_fire 4y ago
      I can hardly think of a war more related to economics.
      - clouddrover 4y ago
        Yes. Your incoherent self contradiction is amusing.
      - clouddrover 4y ago
        Ha! Weak edit. At least have the backbone to own your edits. I'd also love to hear your unhinged explanation of what Russia's invasion of Ukraine has to do with economics.
        surgical_fire 4y ago
        It was obvious what I meant. You just hopped in before I could edit it to spew some bullshit. I have no interest of arguing geopolitics with a moron that approaches this kind of discussion in bad faith. Suffice to say I think Russia is in the wrong, but there are plenty of economic motivations both for Russia and the US behind all this. I will not reply to you any further. Feel free to have the last word.
- anonymousab 4y ago
  Well unfortunately, the people power (and many regular citizens for that matter) have decided that China's money is much more important than Western values.
  - rektide 4y ago
    Indeed. Invisible Hand strikes again.
clouddrover 4y ago
The Mayans valued the practice of human sacrifice to appease their gods. That was also a stupid idea.
- surgical_fire 4y ago
  And it has nothing to do with the reason why they essentially disappeared.
  - mdp2021 4y ago
    > disappeared Why would that be relevant? "Apt for survival" does not imply "with good principles".
qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
Eh, they? Have you talked to them? They hate it.. every second of it. In the words of someone i knew there "It sucks, we are treated like children." If they had a choice, the party would hang in rank and file from the street laternposts.
- surgical_fire 4y ago
  I don't believe we are talking about the same "they"
- HDThoreaun 4y ago
  Turns out there are billions of Chinese and they are not a monolith. I know many, many who are extremely supportive of the CCP.
  - qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
    Do they have relatives in the mainland?
- bllguo 4y ago
  laughable assertion. I can find people equally dissatisfied with the US. in the aggregate the Chinese people approve of their government at a level westerners literally cannot comprehend. These include studies from western institutions like Harvard, and are so readily available that if you claim to not have heard of them you are either 1. arguing in bad faith or 2. completely unqualified to comment on the Chinese people.
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    > in the aggregate the Chinese people approve of their government at a level westerners literally cannot comprehend It's easy to comprehend that the Chinese people have such a warped understanding of the situation. It's a combination of both ignorance and a lack of self respect. Let's have a look at the results of one of your surveys: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-survey-reveals-chinese-government-satisfaction/ https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-sur... It says, "In 2016, the last year the survey was conducted, 95.5 percent of respondents were either 'relatively satisfied' or 'highly satisfied' with Beijing." But when we get to the level of local government, the level of government people have direct contact with day to day and can see up close, what are the results? The survey says, "At the township level, the lowest level of government surveyed, only 11.3 percent of respondents reported that they were 'very satisfied.'" And why the disparity? Because Chinese convince themselves that the efforts of the "good" central government is being thwarted by the evils of "bad" local government. In reality it's all bad, top to bottom. All authoritarian regimes are. The fish does rot from the head. Xi Jinping is so weak that he couldn't do two terms and quit. He's such a poor leader that he's convinced himself that he's the one special boy to lead China and he must stay in power. That's the corrupting influence of authoritarianism.
mdp2021 4y ago
> grew up The poster did not seem to mean "grow taller". Edit: now that was an ambiguous use of '«they»'. For <State>, hence "rule", one would have used 'it'. But 'they' suggests at least the possibility of plural, hence "the people". And that the people share the same view of the rule is not a given.
cynicalsecurity 4y ago
Their authoritarian government doesn't ask them about how they want to live.

rektide 4y ago

The point of this article isnt to disagree with their insular close mindedness & lack of ability to process criticism or satire. The point is that because of economics we keep letting their conservative close minded views dictate what happens in the Western Democratic world. These conservative authoritarian approaches should have no quarter here, go against the values & rights the creators & owners of these sites arose from & should be supporting. It's a sad development & China should be the one having to eat tough shit.

surgical_fire 4y ago
> The point is that because of economics Economics is all that matters in this world. It feels even silly to have to spell it out when we are on a website funded by the pinnacle of capitalism, where money overrides principles day and night. China will not have to eat any tough shit while the economics is on their side. And before you object, I ask you to consider the device you are using to reply to me. I know where mine came from.
- Paianni 4y ago
  > I know where mine came from. I doubt it, the sources of materials and stages of manufacturing for most advanced electronics are spread all over the world. I know my motherboard was made in Taiwan, my processor from Malaysia/Germany, but that's just the start.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- clouddrover 4y ago
  > Economics is all that matters in this world. It isn't. Ukraine is a current demonstration of that.
  - qtzaz 4y ago
    You mean the proxy war that the US is funding through NATO to make Europe stop buying Russian gas and buy American LNG instead? That very much sounds like economics to me!
    - clouddrover 4y ago
      No, I mean the war Russia created for itself when it invaded Ukraine for reason no better than Putin's vanity.
  - surgical_fire 4y ago
    I can hardly think of a war more related to economics.
    - clouddrover 4y ago
      Yes. Your incoherent self contradiction is amusing.
    - clouddrover 4y ago
      Ha! Weak edit. At least have the backbone to own your edits. I'd also love to hear your unhinged explanation of what Russia's invasion of Ukraine has to do with economics.
      - surgical_fire 4y ago
        It was obvious what I meant. You just hopped in before I could edit it to spew some bullshit. I have no interest of arguing geopolitics with a moron that approaches this kind of discussion in bad faith. Suffice to say I think Russia is in the wrong, but there are plenty of economic motivations both for Russia and the US behind all this. I will not reply to you any further. Feel free to have the last word.
anonymousab 4y ago
Well unfortunately, the people power (and many regular citizens for that matter) have decided that China's money is much more important than Western values.
- rektide 4y ago
  Indeed. Invisible Hand strikes again.

clouddrover 4y ago

The Mayans valued the practice of human sacrifice to appease their gods. That was also a stupid idea.

surgical_fire 4y ago
And it has nothing to do with the reason why they essentially disappeared.
- mdp2021 4y ago
  > disappeared Why would that be relevant? "Apt for survival" does not imply "with good principles".

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago

Eh, they? Have you talked to them? They hate it.. every second of it. In the words of someone i knew there "It sucks, we are treated like children." If they had a choice, the party would hang in rank and file from the street laternposts.

surgical_fire 4y ago
I don't believe we are talking about the same "they"
HDThoreaun 4y ago
Turns out there are billions of Chinese and they are not a monolith. I know many, many who are extremely supportive of the CCP.
- qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
  Do they have relatives in the mainland?
bllguo 4y ago
laughable assertion. I can find people equally dissatisfied with the US. in the aggregate the Chinese people approve of their government at a level westerners literally cannot comprehend. These include studies from western institutions like Harvard, and are so readily available that if you claim to not have heard of them you are either 1. arguing in bad faith or 2. completely unqualified to comment on the Chinese people.
- clouddrover 4y ago
  > in the aggregate the Chinese people approve of their government at a level westerners literally cannot comprehend It's easy to comprehend that the Chinese people have such a warped understanding of the situation. It's a combination of both ignorance and a lack of self respect. Let's have a look at the results of one of your surveys: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-survey-reveals-chinese-government-satisfaction/ https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-sur... It says, "In 2016, the last year the survey was conducted, 95.5 percent of respondents were either 'relatively satisfied' or 'highly satisfied' with Beijing." But when we get to the level of local government, the level of government people have direct contact with day to day and can see up close, what are the results? The survey says, "At the township level, the lowest level of government surveyed, only 11.3 percent of respondents reported that they were 'very satisfied.'" And why the disparity? Because Chinese convince themselves that the efforts of the "good" central government is being thwarted by the evils of "bad" local government. In reality it's all bad, top to bottom. All authoritarian regimes are. The fish does rot from the head. Xi Jinping is so weak that he couldn't do two terms and quit. He's such a poor leader that he's convinced himself that he's the one special boy to lead China and he must stay in power. That's the corrupting influence of authoritarianism.

mdp2021 4y ago

> grew up The poster did not seem to mean "grow taller". Edit: now that was an ambiguous use of '«they»'. For <State>, hence "rule", one would have used 'it'. But 'they' suggests at least the possibility of plural, hence "the people". And that the people share the same view of the rule is not a given.

cynicalsecurity 4y ago

Their authoritarian government doesn't ask them about how they want to live.