4 ms·

The recruiting goals are inflated due to low retention, retention is low due to low morale but also because of high employment rates. When it's easy to get a ci

The recruiting goals are inflated due to low retention, retention is low due to low morale but also because of high employment rates. When it's easy to get a civilian gig less people stay in, especially among technical rates/MOS's. The problem isn't as simple as "America too fat".

the_only_law 4y ago
Any insight into why morale is low? I have a lot of immediate family in the military with current and past experiences across all the main branches except the Navy and the “Space Force”. I talk to some of them pretty often and so I’ve developed my own theories, but I’d be curious to hear others.
- jimmygrapes 4y ago
  Anecdotally, I know and speak to dozens of Veterans a week and multiples more of young people in the target range, and the general consensus is "what are we fighting/training for, and why would I want to risk anything for an evil/corrupt/racist country". The idea that "America Bad" (however true or not) has permeated nearly everywhere in some form or another.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    In fairness, America has earned a lot of it's "America Bad" reputation by acting in deplorable ways and failing to protect and care for its people. When I was young I was fed a lot of stories about what America was, mostly in contrast to the USSR and other communist countries. I was told about horrible things those evil other nations did to their people or failed to do for them which would never happen in the USA and how proud I should be that we were better than that, but over the course of my life I've seen more and more of those very same things happening right here. It's even worse for the folks looking at how our military has been used. I've met people who told me they were more than willing to defend their country, but were not at all willing to go to the other side of the planet and defend an oil field, or topple a democratically elected leader so that we could install someone more favorable to being exploited. I don't think there's been a single year of my life where we haven't had US servicemen overseas killing people for one reason or another, but damned if I could even tell you what it was for or where it took place for all but the ones most widely reported/televised. The US absolutely could do with better PR, and sometimes people are unfairly critical, but it's hard to blame folks feeling disillusioned given our record and even our current/recent behavior leaves a lot of room for improvement.
- inkcapmushroom 4y ago
  There could be a number of reasons contributing to it. The veil of "America fighting for its freedoms" has fallen a long time ago. Veterans are tragically neglected in the USA, with huge homeless veteran populations, huge suicide rates, and a notoriously terrible medical system for them in the VA. Maybe more opportunities are becoming available for historically neglected populations so they don't need to turn to the military as the only way out of a situation or place. From talking to veterans directly, some I've talked to are adamant that none of their kids should join the military as they don't see it as worth it. I know families with histories of military service where that has ended with the newer generations so maybe that's also a factor.
  - Der_Einzige 4y ago
    Literally every veteran I've talked to with VA medical says its really good. Most of the people with VA problems were like Vietnam veterans who have zero documentation of their claims that they got hit with agent orange. Most complaints I see about the VA are about refusals to render service, rather than bad service given.
    - Arrath 4y ago
      VA quality is very much a regional thing. A friend of mine (Iraq vet) has the worst experience with the VA offices in Southern California VA offices, they regularly fuck up his prescription refills and refuse to issue him extra/backup scrips so he often has gaps in his medication regimen that debilitate him until the refill comes in. He moved back up to Oregon last year, solely for access to more functional VA offices. Another friend keeps his residence in Arizona and regularly travels back for appointments, again to avoid dealing with CA VA.
ARandumGuy 4y ago
One has to imagine the poor perception of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have also harmed recruitment. Few people want to sign up when they think they'll just be shipped halfway across the world to die for the interests of an oil company.
logicalmonster 4y ago
> high employment rates For what little it's worth, I never trust this statistic because the unemployment rate calculation doesn't count certain types of people: such as those who've given up looking for work. Given the weird times and general malaise of society, this might be a non-trivial variable right now. I could be wrong about this, but it remains a possibility that we're not getting the right picture of what's happening.
- ghaff 4y ago
  There are other unemployment measures you can go by if you don't like the one that "everyone" quotes.
- TheCoelacanth 4y ago
  People always bring this up, but there are a myriad of different metrics that include all kinds of different groups, like people who want work but have given up on finding work or people who are working less but than they want to. All of those measures are highly correlated with each other and move nearly in lockstep with each other.
autoexec 4y ago
Yeah, considering how poorly the US treats their service members and veterans, even if I were eligible for service and thought I'd do well in that kind of environment it'd be very hard not to feel like a sucker. When we demonstrate over and over again that we can't be bothered to take care of the people who are willing to put their lives on the line for our country's interests how can we expect anyone to sign up?

the_only_law 4y ago

Any insight into why morale is low? I have a lot of immediate family in the military with current and past experiences across all the main branches except the Navy and the “Space Force”. I talk to some of them pretty often and so I’ve developed my own theories, but I’d be curious to hear others.

jimmygrapes 4y ago
Anecdotally, I know and speak to dozens of Veterans a week and multiples more of young people in the target range, and the general consensus is "what are we fighting/training for, and why would I want to risk anything for an evil/corrupt/racist country". The idea that "America Bad" (however true or not) has permeated nearly everywhere in some form or another.
- autoexec 4y ago
  In fairness, America has earned a lot of it's "America Bad" reputation by acting in deplorable ways and failing to protect and care for its people. When I was young I was fed a lot of stories about what America was, mostly in contrast to the USSR and other communist countries. I was told about horrible things those evil other nations did to their people or failed to do for them which would never happen in the USA and how proud I should be that we were better than that, but over the course of my life I've seen more and more of those very same things happening right here. It's even worse for the folks looking at how our military has been used. I've met people who told me they were more than willing to defend their country, but were not at all willing to go to the other side of the planet and defend an oil field, or topple a democratically elected leader so that we could install someone more favorable to being exploited. I don't think there's been a single year of my life where we haven't had US servicemen overseas killing people for one reason or another, but damned if I could even tell you what it was for or where it took place for all but the ones most widely reported/televised. The US absolutely could do with better PR, and sometimes people are unfairly critical, but it's hard to blame folks feeling disillusioned given our record and even our current/recent behavior leaves a lot of room for improvement.
inkcapmushroom 4y ago
There could be a number of reasons contributing to it. The veil of "America fighting for its freedoms" has fallen a long time ago. Veterans are tragically neglected in the USA, with huge homeless veteran populations, huge suicide rates, and a notoriously terrible medical system for them in the VA. Maybe more opportunities are becoming available for historically neglected populations so they don't need to turn to the military as the only way out of a situation or place. From talking to veterans directly, some I've talked to are adamant that none of their kids should join the military as they don't see it as worth it. I know families with histories of military service where that has ended with the newer generations so maybe that's also a factor.
- Der_Einzige 4y ago
  Literally every veteran I've talked to with VA medical says its really good. Most of the people with VA problems were like Vietnam veterans who have zero documentation of their claims that they got hit with agent orange. Most complaints I see about the VA are about refusals to render service, rather than bad service given.
  - Arrath 4y ago
    VA quality is very much a regional thing. A friend of mine (Iraq vet) has the worst experience with the VA offices in Southern California VA offices, they regularly fuck up his prescription refills and refuse to issue him extra/backup scrips so he often has gaps in his medication regimen that debilitate him until the refill comes in. He moved back up to Oregon last year, solely for access to more functional VA offices. Another friend keeps his residence in Arizona and regularly travels back for appointments, again to avoid dealing with CA VA.

ARandumGuy 4y ago

One has to imagine the poor perception of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have also harmed recruitment. Few people want to sign up when they think they'll just be shipped halfway across the world to die for the interests of an oil company.

logicalmonster 4y ago

> high employment rates For what little it's worth, I never trust this statistic because the unemployment rate calculation doesn't count certain types of people: such as those who've given up looking for work. Given the weird times and general malaise of society, this might be a non-trivial variable right now. I could be wrong about this, but it remains a possibility that we're not getting the right picture of what's happening.

ghaff 4y ago
There are other unemployment measures you can go by if you don't like the one that "everyone" quotes.
TheCoelacanth 4y ago
People always bring this up, but there are a myriad of different metrics that include all kinds of different groups, like people who want work but have given up on finding work or people who are working less but than they want to. All of those measures are highly correlated with each other and move nearly in lockstep with each other.

autoexec 4y ago

Yeah, considering how poorly the US treats their service members and veterans, even if I were eligible for service and thought I'd do well in that kind of environment it'd be very hard not to feel like a sucker. When we demonstrate over and over again that we can't be bothered to take care of the people who are willing to put their lives on the line for our country's interests how can we expect anyone to sign up?