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Have there been any attempts to truly revive 8-bit hardware? Every one I've seen (including this one) are some form of emulation, either FPGA or software. It'

Have there been any attempts to truly revive 8-bit hardware? Every one I've seen (including this one) are some form of emulation, either FPGA or software. It's great, but I've always wanted a brand-new faithful recreation of something like an 800 or C64.

codezero 3y ago
Ben Eater has a nice 8 bit kit that uses real chips, he also has a great video series. https://eater.net/8bit/ https://eater.net/8bit/
fredoralive 3y ago
A true replica would probably involve spending a large amount of money on fabbing custom or otherwise out of production silicon.
- sixothree 3y ago
  Most of the replicas have that issue when it comes to PLAs. They sometimes use FPGAs for those particular chips.
reaperducer 3y ago
You can buy new boards, cases, and components to make most of a C-64. I think there are just two chips that have to be replaced with drop-in FPGAs: the SID, and I think the CIAs. Unlike today's machines, 8-bits were usually made with mostly off-the-shelf parts.
justin66 3y ago
> It's great, but I've always wanted a brand-new faithful recreation of something like an 800 or C64. I'm fairly sure a full array of replacement parts are available for the C64, from the keycaps all the way down to the PCB. You could build a new one for yourself, theoretically (except for the 6502, etc.). I think one of the Commander X16 guys (not the balding white guy, the vaguely European guy) has done something like this.
diydsp 3y ago
Fpgas can be undistinguishable from the original logic. There's nothing magic abt those digital guts except slower, hotter chips. You can build a c64 100% now from new parts! Only the SID's analog items have to be emulated.
- justin66 3y ago
  > Fpgas can be undistinguishable from the original logic. In my experience when you try to get this point across to the nostalgic, you're tilting at windmills.
  - retrocryptid 3y ago
    The problem with you kids is you clearly didn't get enough paint chips in your diet. That's probably why you tolerate python.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    In that era many games depended on obscure things that the logic did by chance.
m000 3y ago
An implementation with chips similar to the originals would probably cost an order of magnitude more. Which would mean the venture would not be financially viable. Some of the challenges that would balloon the costs: - Source ancient-tech components. - Guarantee rights to reproduce the original board design. - Make sure that everything works the same as the original, down to the tiniest quirk. - Interface the ancient components with modern output ports. - Do everything correct the first time (updates are not possible), or face hordes of angry customers. - Do everything in a short timespan, or face hordes of angry crowdfunding supporters/customers.
Keyframe 3y ago
Check out C64 reloaded (mk2) and ReAmiga.
hakfoo 3y ago
There are quite a few in the "building it is half the fun" space. You've got things like the Omega (MSX) and ZX81+38 (Sinclair), and Tynemouth Software made PET and ZX80 clones. The RC2014 ecosystem is interesting; it's sort of a more modern take on the early world of passive-backplane 8080/Z80 machines-- you can build it pretty much vintage-only or with a variety of modern parts. If you want to stretch to 16-bit there are a couple of 8088-based kit projects too, ranging from "all old stock parts" to "a few affordances for modernity",

codezero 3y ago

Ben Eater has a nice 8 bit kit that uses real chips, he also has a great video series. https://eater.net/8bit/ https://eater.net/8bit/

fredoralive 3y ago

A true replica would probably involve spending a large amount of money on fabbing custom or otherwise out of production silicon.

sixothree 3y ago
Most of the replicas have that issue when it comes to PLAs. They sometimes use FPGAs for those particular chips.

reaperducer 3y ago

You can buy new boards, cases, and components to make most of a C-64. I think there are just two chips that have to be replaced with drop-in FPGAs: the SID, and I think the CIAs. Unlike today's machines, 8-bits were usually made with mostly off-the-shelf parts.

justin66 3y ago

> It's great, but I've always wanted a brand-new faithful recreation of something like an 800 or C64. I'm fairly sure a full array of replacement parts are available for the C64, from the keycaps all the way down to the PCB. You could build a new one for yourself, theoretically (except for the 6502, etc.). I think one of the Commander X16 guys (not the balding white guy, the vaguely European guy) has done something like this.

diydsp 3y ago

Fpgas can be undistinguishable from the original logic. There's nothing magic abt those digital guts except slower, hotter chips. You can build a c64 100% now from new parts! Only the SID's analog items have to be emulated.

justin66 3y ago
> Fpgas can be undistinguishable from the original logic. In my experience when you try to get this point across to the nostalgic, you're tilting at windmills.
- retrocryptid 3y ago
  The problem with you kids is you clearly didn't get enough paint chips in your diet. That's probably why you tolerate python.
- bluGill 3y ago
  In that era many games depended on obscure things that the logic did by chance.

m000 3y ago

An implementation with chips similar to the originals would probably cost an order of magnitude more. Which would mean the venture would not be financially viable. Some of the challenges that would balloon the costs: - Source ancient-tech components. - Guarantee rights to reproduce the original board design. - Make sure that everything works the same as the original, down to the tiniest quirk. - Interface the ancient components with modern output ports. - Do everything correct the first time (updates are not possible), or face hordes of angry customers. - Do everything in a short timespan, or face hordes of angry crowdfunding supporters/customers.

Keyframe 3y ago

Check out C64 reloaded (mk2) and ReAmiga.

hakfoo 3y ago

There are quite a few in the "building it is half the fun" space. You've got things like the Omega (MSX) and ZX81+38 (Sinclair), and Tynemouth Software made PET and ZX80 clones. The RC2014 ecosystem is interesting; it's sort of a more modern take on the early world of passive-backplane 8080/Z80 machines-- you can build it pretty much vintage-only or with a variety of modern parts. If you want to stretch to 16-bit there are a couple of 8088-based kit projects too, ranging from "all old stock parts" to "a few affordances for modernity",