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I completely agree. The part about infecting people with my attitude is especially relevant. It's normal that we talk. And when they ask "why?", it feels awkwar

I completely agree. The part about infecting people with my attitude is especially relevant. It's normal that we talk. And when they ask "why?", it feels awkward. If I tell them all the reasons, it will influence their perception of their situation (which might be quite positive) and I prefer not to do that. But if I avoid answering, I will be perceived as dishonest or hiding something. So usually I invent some excuse so that nobody feels bad.

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
> But if I avoid answering, I will be perceived as dishonest or hiding something. So usually I invent some excuse so that nobody feels bad. So you avoid the perception of being dishonest and hiding something by actually being dishonest and hiding something?
- ghaff 4y ago
  You don't need to lie. There are plenty of generic reasons you can give why you're leaving that probably even have the virtue of having some truth to them. (Was time to make a change.) No reason to get into a blow-by-blow of why now and what all the things that made the situation less and less tolerable were. It's not lying. It just not telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. ADDED: Companies can also obviously be in a place where at least some of your reasons are so blindingly obvious they don't need to be stated.
  - brookst 4y ago
    This is the way. You can be honest, and authentic, without running down the company or your coworkers.
  - projectazorian 4y ago
    “Love it here, just looking for a new challenge” or “Love it here, but I couldn’t pass this opportunity up” have gotten me far. You can always be more honest behind closed doors if you want.
    - q7xvh97o2pDhNrh 4y ago
      I'm impressed (and a bit envious) you were able to say that first part. I wish I'd worked at place where I could honestly say the same. Every place I've left, the best I could muster with a straight face was a bland tautological platitude — something like, "Oh, you know, just going to do something different." I don't exactly have tons of experience quitting jobs or ending relationships, but I've never understood the relentless navel-gazing of "why" that seems to come along with most people quitting their jobs. And, besides, what's the point of expounding on how things could be better (in an "exit interview" or otherwise), when everyone knows all that feedback will have no impact? It seems to me the practical part of the conversation is simply, "I'm ending our relationship." And then — everyone moves forward from there.
      - ghaff 4y ago
        It's mostly just a ritual. After you've gotten past whatever pressures and inducements your management offers (or not) for you to stay, the exit interview is you pretending to seriously answer the "why" and HR pretending to care.
      - projectazorian 4y ago
        > And, besides, what's the point of expounding on how things could be better (in an "exit interview" or otherwise), when everyone knows all that feedback will have no impact? Many employers do listen to exit interview feedback, and if themes are consistent, changes do get made. Have seen it happen more than once, although it usually takes multiple departures or the loss of a key person. Of course not all employers are like this, but if you‘re willing to give yours the benefit of the doubt, it can be worth paying it forward to your colleagues by giving your feedback in a professional way.
        hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
        > Many employers do listen to exit interview feedback, and if themes are consistent, changes do get made. Have seen it happen more than once, although it usually takes multiple departures or the loss of a key person. My anecdata seems to confirm this. I told my employer I love my job but I'm leaving solely because of their RTO policies. They changed them after I left.
  - watwut 4y ago
    It is still not the truth. I am not saying you are obliged to say the truth if the is unsafe or if no one will listen. But lets not pretend this is actually honest communication. It is not.
itronitron 4y ago
I once shared an office with someone in order to take on their work because they were retiring early. I got/had to hear about all of their gripes with our employer and within six months I was in complete agreement with them :)
watwut 4y ago
> And when they ask "why?", it feels awkward. If I tell them all the reasons, it will influence their perception of their situation (which might be quite positive) I find this on itself to be a dysfunction. In well functioning team, they would be able to guess, because they would know your general opinions. And their positive opinions would be known too. As in, this happens only because the communication within the team or within the corporation is dysfunctional and people dont talk in the first place.
P_I_Staker 4y ago
Just lie, but you don't normally have to really lie. Is there ever one single reason for leaving? You don't have to tell them the worst version of your decision.

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago

> But if I avoid answering, I will be perceived as dishonest or hiding something. So usually I invent some excuse so that nobody feels bad. So you avoid the perception of being dishonest and hiding something by actually being dishonest and hiding something?

ghaff 4y ago
You don't need to lie. There are plenty of generic reasons you can give why you're leaving that probably even have the virtue of having some truth to them. (Was time to make a change.) No reason to get into a blow-by-blow of why now and what all the things that made the situation less and less tolerable were. It's not lying. It just not telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. ADDED: Companies can also obviously be in a place where at least some of your reasons are so blindingly obvious they don't need to be stated.
- brookst 4y ago
  This is the way. You can be honest, and authentic, without running down the company or your coworkers.
- projectazorian 4y ago
  “Love it here, just looking for a new challenge” or “Love it here, but I couldn’t pass this opportunity up” have gotten me far. You can always be more honest behind closed doors if you want.
  - q7xvh97o2pDhNrh 4y ago
    I'm impressed (and a bit envious) you were able to say that first part. I wish I'd worked at place where I could honestly say the same. Every place I've left, the best I could muster with a straight face was a bland tautological platitude — something like, "Oh, you know, just going to do something different." I don't exactly have tons of experience quitting jobs or ending relationships, but I've never understood the relentless navel-gazing of "why" that seems to come along with most people quitting their jobs. And, besides, what's the point of expounding on how things could be better (in an "exit interview" or otherwise), when everyone knows all that feedback will have no impact? It seems to me the practical part of the conversation is simply, "I'm ending our relationship." And then — everyone moves forward from there.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      It's mostly just a ritual. After you've gotten past whatever pressures and inducements your management offers (or not) for you to stay, the exit interview is you pretending to seriously answer the "why" and HR pretending to care.
    - projectazorian 4y ago
      > And, besides, what's the point of expounding on how things could be better (in an "exit interview" or otherwise), when everyone knows all that feedback will have no impact? Many employers do listen to exit interview feedback, and if themes are consistent, changes do get made. Have seen it happen more than once, although it usually takes multiple departures or the loss of a key person. Of course not all employers are like this, but if you‘re willing to give yours the benefit of the doubt, it can be worth paying it forward to your colleagues by giving your feedback in a professional way.
      - hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
        > Many employers do listen to exit interview feedback, and if themes are consistent, changes do get made. Have seen it happen more than once, although it usually takes multiple departures or the loss of a key person. My anecdata seems to confirm this. I told my employer I love my job but I'm leaving solely because of their RTO policies. They changed them after I left.
- watwut 4y ago
  It is still not the truth. I am not saying you are obliged to say the truth if the is unsafe or if no one will listen. But lets not pretend this is actually honest communication. It is not.

itronitron 4y ago

I once shared an office with someone in order to take on their work because they were retiring early. I got/had to hear about all of their gripes with our employer and within six months I was in complete agreement with them :)

watwut 4y ago

> And when they ask "why?", it feels awkward. If I tell them all the reasons, it will influence their perception of their situation (which might be quite positive) I find this on itself to be a dysfunction. In well functioning team, they would be able to guess, because they would know your general opinions. And their positive opinions would be known too. As in, this happens only because the communication within the team or within the corporation is dysfunctional and people dont talk in the first place.

P_I_Staker 4y ago

Just lie, but you don't normally have to really lie. Is there ever one single reason for leaving? You don't have to tell them the worst version of your decision.