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Would Flutter not work for you? Dart's a decent, though unpopular, language.

samsquire 4y ago
Why is Dart not popular? When I think introspectively I didn't want to use it because I was never sure what it gave me over what I already used. There was also the abandonment of Google Web Toolkit (GWT) which I liked that Google abandoned and that I wasn't sure if Dart has staying power.
lakomen 4y ago
Rightfully unpopular if I might say so. I spent the last 2 weeks learning Flutter. I'm not having a good time. Compared to Vue everything takes so much longer. There's a reddit thread in the Flutter community about what people think could be improved upon. Flutter should decide on standards regarding routing and state management. It's all a hot mess. There should be standards, but Flutter doesn't have them. They're still stuck in the Android way of doing things. There is only 1 oidc auth solution and it only works on mobile. Null safety and checking is a PITA. And it's overly verbose. However dotnet MAUI isn't any better. So I'd rather do electron with Vue/Quasar. Why bother with native apps? Qt is too expensive.
- franzkappa 4y ago
  Using dart and flutter every day for the last 3 years, I strongly disagree with you. Dart/Flutter is a lower level framework than something like vue, so yes it is more verbose. But there are standars, what you are referring to are just libraries builded on top of them. There are two ways to navigate, a legacy one and a new one, but this is normal in a young framework. State management? You are covered by the framework, wants something different? Just pick your poison between the available flavors. The base is sane and stable as a young growing framework can be and so is the ecosystem. Can’t say the same about JS Maybe two weeks are not enough to understand something like Flutter and Dart… My two cents
okamiueru 4y ago
Is dart really unpopular? That surprises me. I'd put it top 3 languages based on features and dev environment.
- Moto7451 4y ago
  I have an acquaintance that switched from Perl consultancy to Dart/Flutter consultancy and managed to find less work. This was someone that was engaged in the early days of Dart and was part of Google’s Flutter outreach program.
- miroljub 4y ago
  It is unpopular. Its only reason d'etre is being the only language used by Flutter. I'm not aware of any major project using it outside the Flutter apps.
  - okamiueru 4y ago
    Ah, I should perhaps have clarified. I didn't mean "popular" in the sense of widespread adoption, but. More "for it's domain, is it liked/disliked". I've used it to build complicated app that interacts with low level C++ code, and I found it exceptionally well put together. High level UI code by flutter was a pleasure to work with, with interactive development and hot reloads. Low level performant development with all the tools and legacy of C++, and all of it put together and debugged with fairly powerful tools as well. I cannot think of any stack that could solve the same problem. That is, without having to build separate apps for Android and iOS. And even then, I'd consider it a more productive environment to use flutter even if you target one of the platforms. And then, the language features themselves. Dart handles null safety in a way no other language and tooling does. It goes beyond null-handling syntax, and can give runtime-guarantees (assuming you check the remote code boundaries) for null safety. The package management is great. So, if the languages is solely a great development environment for mobile apps, with the potential for desktop/web targets... I would say great job all around. The only negative/red-flag this has is being managed and driven by google. --- I've been a developer for the larger part of my life now, and I very much respect the dart language and project. It is well put together, does the right abstractions at the right places. The syntax is great. The standard library is satisfying. The tooling and OS abstractions are great. And I would honestly place it top 3 in terms of enjoyment and productivity. The top three being perhaps rust and kotlin.

Why is Dart not popular? When I think introspectively I didn't want to use it because I was never sure what it gave me over what I already used. There was also the abandonment of Google Web Toolkit (GWT) which I liked that Google abandoned and that I wasn't sure if Dart has staying power.

lakomen 4y ago

Rightfully unpopular if I might say so. I spent the last 2 weeks learning Flutter. I'm not having a good time. Compared to Vue everything takes so much longer. There's a reddit thread in the Flutter community about what people think could be improved upon. Flutter should decide on standards regarding routing and state management. It's all a hot mess. There should be standards, but Flutter doesn't have them. They're still stuck in the Android way of doing things. There is only 1 oidc auth solution and it only works on mobile. Null safety and checking is a PITA. And it's overly verbose. However dotnet MAUI isn't any better. So I'd rather do electron with Vue/Quasar. Why bother with native apps? Qt is too expensive.

franzkappa 4y ago
Using dart and flutter every day for the last 3 years, I strongly disagree with you. Dart/Flutter is a lower level framework than something like vue, so yes it is more verbose. But there are standars, what you are referring to are just libraries builded on top of them. There are two ways to navigate, a legacy one and a new one, but this is normal in a young framework. State management? You are covered by the framework, wants something different? Just pick your poison between the available flavors. The base is sane and stable as a young growing framework can be and so is the ecosystem. Can’t say the same about JS Maybe two weeks are not enough to understand something like Flutter and Dart… My two cents

okamiueru 4y ago

Is dart really unpopular? That surprises me. I'd put it top 3 languages based on features and dev environment.

Moto7451 4y ago
I have an acquaintance that switched from Perl consultancy to Dart/Flutter consultancy and managed to find less work. This was someone that was engaged in the early days of Dart and was part of Google’s Flutter outreach program.
miroljub 4y ago
It is unpopular. Its only reason d'etre is being the only language used by Flutter. I'm not aware of any major project using it outside the Flutter apps.
- okamiueru 4y ago
  Ah, I should perhaps have clarified. I didn't mean "popular" in the sense of widespread adoption, but. More "for it's domain, is it liked/disliked". I've used it to build complicated app that interacts with low level C++ code, and I found it exceptionally well put together. High level UI code by flutter was a pleasure to work with, with interactive development and hot reloads. Low level performant development with all the tools and legacy of C++, and all of it put together and debugged with fairly powerful tools as well. I cannot think of any stack that could solve the same problem. That is, without having to build separate apps for Android and iOS. And even then, I'd consider it a more productive environment to use flutter even if you target one of the platforms. And then, the language features themselves. Dart handles null safety in a way no other language and tooling does. It goes beyond null-handling syntax, and can give runtime-guarantees (assuming you check the remote code boundaries) for null safety. The package management is great. So, if the languages is solely a great development environment for mobile apps, with the potential for desktop/web targets... I would say great job all around. The only negative/red-flag this has is being managed and driven by google. --- I've been a developer for the larger part of my life now, and I very much respect the dart language and project. It is well put together, does the right abstractions at the right places. The syntax is great. The standard library is satisfying. The tooling and OS abstractions are great. And I would honestly place it top 3 in terms of enjoyment and productivity. The top three being perhaps rust and kotlin.