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Creating a multiplatform native framework for creating native looking GUIs is extremely difficult and a challenging piece of work. Add the complexity of C++ and

Creating a multiplatform native framework for creating native looking GUIs is extremely difficult and a challenging piece of work. Add the complexity of C++ and I'm not surprised that things are as complicated as they are. I once looked at what needs to be implemented to implement a text control interface in Mac OS and it was an API with hundreds of methods. GUI frontend development IS complicated. There's so many edge cases with text rendering, editing logic, layout, state, native compatibility. I started writing the beginnings of a flowing rendering engine using WxWidgets in Python using an algorithm from the ORC Solver whitepaper. IntelliJ Idea, Netbeans are intricate advanced frontends and they are both written in Java. How would a user interface written in a functional language look? I used to use Xmonad as a window manager which was very powerful and easy to use but it is written in Haskell. I think any frontend technology that wins needs to be simple and easy to comprehend. I have yet to use Flutter. I did have a frontend in Electron but my code was awful. I would rather create user interfaces with a simple language and use a fast language for the data crunching. I think Python and Java count.

brabel 4y ago
> How would a user interface written in a functional language look? Maybe you're not aware of Elm? https://elm-lang.org https://elm-lang.org Elm is really functional, unlike the likes of React that are just partially, kind of functional. There's an attempt at bringing Elm to the desktop, the Roc language... here's an UI example written in Roc: https://github.com/roc-lang/roc/blob/main/examples/gui/hello.roc https://github.com/roc-lang/roc/blob/main/examples/gui/hello...
- GiorgioG 4y ago
  Maybe most people aren’t aware of Elm. Despite its good ideas it’s a niche language that should be avoided for real work because it has a bus factor of 1.
- DarkNova6 4y ago
  Unfortunately, it seems the developers behind elm do everything in their power so elm can never become mainstream
account-5 4y ago
Would Flutter not work for you? Dart's a decent, though unpopular, language.
- samsquire 4y ago
  Why is Dart not popular? When I think introspectively I didn't want to use it because I was never sure what it gave me over what I already used. There was also the abandonment of Google Web Toolkit (GWT) which I liked that Google abandoned and that I wasn't sure if Dart has staying power.
- lakomen 4y ago
  Rightfully unpopular if I might say so. I spent the last 2 weeks learning Flutter. I'm not having a good time. Compared to Vue everything takes so much longer. There's a reddit thread in the Flutter community about what people think could be improved upon. Flutter should decide on standards regarding routing and state management. It's all a hot mess. There should be standards, but Flutter doesn't have them. They're still stuck in the Android way of doing things. There is only 1 oidc auth solution and it only works on mobile. Null safety and checking is a PITA. And it's overly verbose. However dotnet MAUI isn't any better. So I'd rather do electron with Vue/Quasar. Why bother with native apps? Qt is too expensive.
  - franzkappa 4y ago
    Using dart and flutter every day for the last 3 years, I strongly disagree with you. Dart/Flutter is a lower level framework than something like vue, so yes it is more verbose. But there are standars, what you are referring to are just libraries builded on top of them. There are two ways to navigate, a legacy one and a new one, but this is normal in a young framework. State management? You are covered by the framework, wants something different? Just pick your poison between the available flavors. The base is sane and stable as a young growing framework can be and so is the ecosystem. Can’t say the same about JS Maybe two weeks are not enough to understand something like Flutter and Dart… My two cents
- okamiueru 4y ago
  Is dart really unpopular? That surprises me. I'd put it top 3 languages based on features and dev environment.
l__l 4y ago
I absolutely love Xmonad, and I'm very impressed by how easy its architecture makes it to get complex changes to your environment off the ground. It's a godsend in terms of interfacing with the box, mostly because its configuration is so good, I just wish it had some prettier GUI building blocks to use --- the included packages like TreeSelect and GridSelect are absolutely hideous. I've always assumed their problem could be that no one who can really do UI is interested in an X WM focused on functionality over style, but it's a shame.

brabel 4y ago

> How would a user interface written in a functional language look? Maybe you're not aware of Elm? https://elm-lang.org https://elm-lang.org Elm is really functional, unlike the likes of React that are just partially, kind of functional. There's an attempt at bringing Elm to the desktop, the Roc language... here's an UI example written in Roc: https://github.com/roc-lang/roc/blob/main/examples/gui/hello.roc https://github.com/roc-lang/roc/blob/main/examples/gui/hello...

GiorgioG 4y ago
Maybe most people aren’t aware of Elm. Despite its good ideas it’s a niche language that should be avoided for real work because it has a bus factor of 1.
DarkNova6 4y ago
Unfortunately, it seems the developers behind elm do everything in their power so elm can never become mainstream

account-5 4y ago

Would Flutter not work for you? Dart's a decent, though unpopular, language.

samsquire 4y ago
Why is Dart not popular? When I think introspectively I didn't want to use it because I was never sure what it gave me over what I already used. There was also the abandonment of Google Web Toolkit (GWT) which I liked that Google abandoned and that I wasn't sure if Dart has staying power.
lakomen 4y ago
Rightfully unpopular if I might say so. I spent the last 2 weeks learning Flutter. I'm not having a good time. Compared to Vue everything takes so much longer. There's a reddit thread in the Flutter community about what people think could be improved upon. Flutter should decide on standards regarding routing and state management. It's all a hot mess. There should be standards, but Flutter doesn't have them. They're still stuck in the Android way of doing things. There is only 1 oidc auth solution and it only works on mobile. Null safety and checking is a PITA. And it's overly verbose. However dotnet MAUI isn't any better. So I'd rather do electron with Vue/Quasar. Why bother with native apps? Qt is too expensive.
- franzkappa 4y ago
  Using dart and flutter every day for the last 3 years, I strongly disagree with you. Dart/Flutter is a lower level framework than something like vue, so yes it is more verbose. But there are standars, what you are referring to are just libraries builded on top of them. There are two ways to navigate, a legacy one and a new one, but this is normal in a young framework. State management? You are covered by the framework, wants something different? Just pick your poison between the available flavors. The base is sane and stable as a young growing framework can be and so is the ecosystem. Can’t say the same about JS Maybe two weeks are not enough to understand something like Flutter and Dart… My two cents
okamiueru 4y ago
Is dart really unpopular? That surprises me. I'd put it top 3 languages based on features and dev environment.

l__l 4y ago

I absolutely love Xmonad, and I'm very impressed by how easy its architecture makes it to get complex changes to your environment off the ground. It's a godsend in terms of interfacing with the box, mostly because its configuration is so good, I just wish it had some prettier GUI building blocks to use --- the included packages like TreeSelect and GridSelect are absolutely hideous. I've always assumed their problem could be that no one who can really do UI is interested in an X WM focused on functionality over style, but it's a shame.