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Why does the lights need a can bus connector nearby? No serious company put an ethernet port outside the building or use a wifi without encryption. I wonder w
by frankzander 3y ago
Why does the lights need a can bus connector nearby?
No serious company put an ethernet port outside the building or use a wifi without encryption.
I wonder what lunatics are this car designers/manufacturers .
- alufers 3y agoA car lamp will usually have a few different bulbs/LEDs (daylight running lights, headlights, high beam, indicators also the height adjustment motor), so it's less wiring to run a CAN pair and constant +12V to the fixture, than to wire each light type individually. I think the light can also report a failed lightbulb to the dashboard.
- trollied 3y agoSome are even more complicated. My car has lights that will track the road going round corners etc. I imagine there are other inputs it requires elsewhere in the car (cameras etc).
- moffkalast 3y agoThere are afaik already multiple CAN busses in your average car with different data rates, might as well have a separate one for all the risky stuff that's easily accessed? This is some basic security shit.
- oh_sigh 3y agoA problem with the CAN bus is that there is no way to tell what node sends what message on the bus, so you can't have something like a filter that only processes headlight-related messages coming from headlights. I guess you could actually do it, but it would require every node being able to sign their messages, which would add a lot of cost.
- londons_explore 3y agoThe simpler solution would be signed messages over CAN. Any message sent to a security critical part of the car (eg. the door locks) would be signed by the ECU. The signature would use the current date/time as a nonce to prevent replay attacks. The signing certificate would be pre-programmed in at the factory. Now anyone can say malicious things over the bus, yet still can never unlock the car.
- randunel 3y agoHow would you deal with spare parts, then? If every spare part you swap on your car is able to check and sign messages, then this defeats the purpose. If every spare part needed to be programmed with the private keys, this significantly increases the cost of maintenance and prohibits non-dealers from making such changes. Besides, are the private keys really private when dealers can access them? ECUs are already tightly paired with immobilizers and dashboards, so they already need to be swapped together. Let's not do this with other parts which frequently break such as lights, locks and windows, please.
- sidewndr46 3y agoEasy, only an authorized dealer can make repairs to the vehicle. After a period of time the manufacturer may elect to no longer authorize any repairs, so as to incentivize the purchase of safer and cleaner automobiles.
- tough 3y agoRight to not repair
- boromisp 3y agoYou could allow to pair the part to some central control unit, when the car is unlocked. I don't speak car or cryptographer so so I have no idea about how to go about it, but this seems like a workable solution.
- rhn_mk1 3y agoYou don't need to sign all messages. Only those coming from the critical component, like the key fob, and the only parts that need to check signatures are the critical ones from the perspective of theft. Once you replace the key fob, you must reprogram your engine ignition. What prevents a thief from reprogramming the engine ignition for some other key? The same thing that prevents the thief from starting ignition manually: it's buried in the car. Notice that in this case, thieves rely on CAN buses running in easily accessible places. If the thief can access your car's ignition directly, you can't stop them anyway.
- DANmode 3y agoUnfortunately, the answer is simply incentives: until this pendulum really goes hard toward blatant insecurity, the headlines have been somewhat tenable by the public, and few people, including in the tech community(!) choose their car based on security, let alone privacy.
- wildzzz 3y agoA company may want an outdoor outlet and for some reason, end up putting it on the same circuit that powers the door locks. The building has backup power so there's no risk of the door becoming unlocked if the whole building goes down but what if that single circuit goes down (like from a wire jammed in the outdoor outlet)? The doors would lose power and the UPS wouldn't kick in so now the doors are all unlocked.