4 ms·

I applied for planning permission; The way you do it, apparently, is you contact one of a handful of companies who specialize in architecting things and you pro

I applied for planning permission; The way you do it, apparently, is you contact one of a handful of companies who specialize in architecting things and you promise to pay them. I needed a contract for employees; The way you do it, apparently, is you contact one of a handful of companies who specialize in doing these legal things and you promise to pay them. I needed a set up an IT system; The way you do it, apparently, is you contact one of a handful of companies who specialize in doing IT systems and you promise to pay them. It's doing shit, Jim, but the exact same way it has always been.

rvense 4y ago
I see the point you're trying to make, but we've applied for many other grants without requiring help.
- kevviiinn 4y ago
  Suppose you've already done it before and know how to do it, I bet you wouldn't need help
andromeduck 4y ago
In some places like San Francisco, it's effectively impossible to get a permit without making several "donations" to the local "nonprofits" & electeds office. You'll hear about how they know the problem is so hard and how much they hate the beauracracy and that's why they set up a small office to help small business or homeowners just like you but we're so busy and it's so hard to keep something like that staffed...
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  Has this been reported in any media outlets? That is very blatant corruption and I'd expect it to be of interest to many journalists. If this is indeed happening and there has not been any reporting, you should reach out to some news organizations.
  - jokethrowaway 4y ago
    It happens everywhere. I recently had to bribe some government officials just to get them to process a real estate permit release. It was either that or wait 0-2 years for something to happen. Who do you think will report on that? With what proofs?
    - boppo1 4y ago
      how much did you have to bribe them?
  - zamnos 4y ago
    It was reported, and prosecuted, and now the FBI goes away for 10 years, and then just repeats the process with the next guy. https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/former-san-francisco-public-works-director-admits-string-briberies-and-corruption https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/former-san-francisco-pu... btw, anyone want to buy a Winnebago?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - andromeduck 4y ago
    It's an open secret, just like Epstein/Weinstein. Businesses here are afraid of retribution. Those who paid in often embrace it, see it as part of the game and therefore unfair if newcomers don't. And because of the path dependency of office, everyone's hands are dirty/leverage, everyone has dirt on everyone else, and going for the jugular might bring down your allies as much as your enemies which is too much uncertainty.
  - lxm 4y ago
    It's reported when the scale is grand, like https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-01-19/jose-huizar-agrees-to-plead-guilty https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-01-19/jose-hui...
- nobodyandproud 4y ago
  Where have all the Fiorello La Guardias of the world gone to?
- atraac 4y ago
  > In some places like San Francisco, it's effectively impossible to get a permit without making several "donations" to the local "nonprofits" & electeds office US normalizing corruption under a more friendly name, where's the news?
jokethrowaway 4y ago
You're missing the point. Unlike the case you mention, you need to pay someone to get public money or you won't get any. How do you think that happens?
saiya-jin 4y ago
Do you pay % of the house you will sell it for to each handyman, architect, supplier etc? Or do they have fair fixed fees that you can check, choose the best for you and if you are not happy go next door. What OP describes is pure corruption, eastern more fucked up parts of EU have this ecosystem for 3 decades. It takes easily 70-80% of the budget to get anything done (say play park for children). If company wants some grant to ie improve their processes, the cut may be more like 30-50% percent. That's how mafia runs things, and ie in quite a few places mafia is very deeply ingrained into state and processes that manage those grants. If its not outright italian mafia, then some self-brewed oligarchs connected to mobsters and politicians capture the drip. I come from such a state and literally everybody knows this, nothing secretive there. My cousin worked for state department responsible for EU grants, and it was a corrupt shitshow where processes were often bypassed every single effin' day. The only positive thing is, our country is so small and economically weak that even if all money end up stolen EU doesn't bat an eye since its pocket money for them.
- zamnos 4y ago
  > Do you pay % of the house you will sell it for to each handyman It's not material to your point, but if you're flipping houses, and don't have much cash, and have someone you've worked with before and that trusts you, it's not unheard of for then highly skilled and licensed tradesperson (eg electrician) to take a percentage off the sales price. Most people don't buy or sell houses that often, and most people don't work for promised future cash, so it's definitely not normal though.
pipes 4y ago
Except in none of your examples does the government handout money.
- blitzar 4y ago
  The best corruption ALWAYS involves the giving the government money, not taking it. All the greatest empires are built on paying $1 for a billion $ of value.
  - pipes 4y ago
    I'm not sure what that has to do with my post?
    - blitzar 4y ago
      The government does planning... If I bribe a planning officer I can sell the thing I own that is worth 10k for 10mil. The government has given me $0.00, indeed I have paid them $100 in processing fees for my application.
rcme 4y ago
Architects are licensed. Anyone can become one provided they meet the requirements.
version_five 4y ago
That was unnecessarily condescending, and also it's a false equivalence to pretend that lawyers or IT people are all rent seeking middlemen (or that grant application consultants aren't, I don't know which you meant). These kind of handouts encourage a shift from useful work to rent seeking, and cause consultancies that specialize in rent seeking to flourish.

rvense 4y ago

I see the point you're trying to make, but we've applied for many other grants without requiring help.

kevviiinn 4y ago
Suppose you've already done it before and know how to do it, I bet you wouldn't need help

andromeduck 4y ago

In some places like San Francisco, it's effectively impossible to get a permit without making several "donations" to the local "nonprofits" & electeds office. You'll hear about how they know the problem is so hard and how much they hate the beauracracy and that's why they set up a small office to help small business or homeowners just like you but we're so busy and it's so hard to keep something like that staffed...

Wowfunhappy 4y ago
Has this been reported in any media outlets? That is very blatant corruption and I'd expect it to be of interest to many journalists. If this is indeed happening and there has not been any reporting, you should reach out to some news organizations.
- jokethrowaway 4y ago
  It happens everywhere. I recently had to bribe some government officials just to get them to process a real estate permit release. It was either that or wait 0-2 years for something to happen. Who do you think will report on that? With what proofs?
  - boppo1 4y ago
    how much did you have to bribe them?
- zamnos 4y ago
  It was reported, and prosecuted, and now the FBI goes away for 10 years, and then just repeats the process with the next guy. https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/former-san-francisco-public-works-director-admits-string-briberies-and-corruption https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/former-san-francisco-pu... btw, anyone want to buy a Winnebago?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- andromeduck 4y ago
  It's an open secret, just like Epstein/Weinstein. Businesses here are afraid of retribution. Those who paid in often embrace it, see it as part of the game and therefore unfair if newcomers don't. And because of the path dependency of office, everyone's hands are dirty/leverage, everyone has dirt on everyone else, and going for the jugular might bring down your allies as much as your enemies which is too much uncertainty.
- lxm 4y ago
  It's reported when the scale is grand, like https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-01-19/jose-huizar-agrees-to-plead-guilty https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-01-19/jose-hui...
nobodyandproud 4y ago
Where have all the Fiorello La Guardias of the world gone to?
atraac 4y ago
> In some places like San Francisco, it's effectively impossible to get a permit without making several "donations" to the local "nonprofits" & electeds office US normalizing corruption under a more friendly name, where's the news?

jokethrowaway 4y ago

You're missing the point. Unlike the case you mention, you need to pay someone to get public money or you won't get any. How do you think that happens?

saiya-jin 4y ago

Do you pay % of the house you will sell it for to each handyman, architect, supplier etc? Or do they have fair fixed fees that you can check, choose the best for you and if you are not happy go next door. What OP describes is pure corruption, eastern more fucked up parts of EU have this ecosystem for 3 decades. It takes easily 70-80% of the budget to get anything done (say play park for children). If company wants some grant to ie improve their processes, the cut may be more like 30-50% percent. That's how mafia runs things, and ie in quite a few places mafia is very deeply ingrained into state and processes that manage those grants. If its not outright italian mafia, then some self-brewed oligarchs connected to mobsters and politicians capture the drip. I come from such a state and literally everybody knows this, nothing secretive there. My cousin worked for state department responsible for EU grants, and it was a corrupt shitshow where processes were often bypassed every single effin' day. The only positive thing is, our country is so small and economically weak that even if all money end up stolen EU doesn't bat an eye since its pocket money for them.

zamnos 4y ago
> Do you pay % of the house you will sell it for to each handyman It's not material to your point, but if you're flipping houses, and don't have much cash, and have someone you've worked with before and that trusts you, it's not unheard of for then highly skilled and licensed tradesperson (eg electrician) to take a percentage off the sales price. Most people don't buy or sell houses that often, and most people don't work for promised future cash, so it's definitely not normal though.

pipes 4y ago

Except in none of your examples does the government handout money.

blitzar 4y ago
The best corruption ALWAYS involves the giving the government money, not taking it. All the greatest empires are built on paying $1 for a billion $ of value.
- pipes 4y ago
  I'm not sure what that has to do with my post?
  - blitzar 4y ago
    The government does planning... If I bribe a planning officer I can sell the thing I own that is worth 10k for 10mil. The government has given me $0.00, indeed I have paid them $100 in processing fees for my application.

rcme 4y ago

Architects are licensed. Anyone can become one provided they meet the requirements.

version_five 4y ago

That was unnecessarily condescending, and also it's a false equivalence to pretend that lawyers or IT people are all rent seeking middlemen (or that grant application consultants aren't, I don't know which you meant). These kind of handouts encourage a shift from useful work to rent seeking, and cause consultancies that specialize in rent seeking to flourish.