3 ms·

Yet, millions of people in every one of these cities manage to live there, often even in the central urban districts, without making anywhere near $100K, let al

Yet, millions of people in every one of these cities manage to live there, often even in the central urban districts, without making anywhere near $100K, let alone $300K. Yes, some of those complaining about the cost of living at these salaries are self absorbed to the point of absurdity and could really just stop spending so much on so many luxurious things, or if they can't forego those, there's the option of, you know, just moving to a cheaper place.

anony23 4y ago
"Manage" to live there, but not well. Maybe they pile 4 people intona four bedroom apartment and work 2 jobs to do it.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  No, a lot of people have rent controlled apartments. This article says more than 60% of SF rental units are rent controlled...https://bungalow.com/articles/rent-control-in-san-francisco-everything-you-need-to-know https://bungalow.com/articles/rent-control-in-san-francisco-...
  - dualityoftapirs 4y ago
    A key thing to note is that rent control in SF isn't quite what most people think of. The apartment itself is not locked to a specific price (which is how NYC rent control works, for example) but rather the lease between the landlord and master tenants can only increase so much per year. For example you can have a rent controlled apartment renting for $500 a month, that tenant leaves, and the new tenants would sign for $3000 a month. There's no requirement the new master tenants would get the $500 a month. Whereas I believe in NYC's rent control the apartment itself is set at $500 a month, and anyone who moves in, that's what they pay.
    - iancmceachern 4y ago
      Not quite. Your conflating several things. Rent control is different from rent stabilization is yet different from rent increase laws. Often cities have all 3. In SF the rent controlled properties, both for rent and for sale (yes you can buy super affordable apartments in SF if you don't exceed certain income) folks just have to make less than a certain amount a year. The income tiers are listed here, and are higher than I expect some would expect. https://sf.gov/reports/may-2022/income-and-rent-limits-inclusionary-rental-units https://sf.gov/reports/may-2022/income-and-rent-limits-inclu... There is also a citywide rent increase cap of 3.6% currently (its calculated based off inflation and other factors) on any and all rental units, regardless of income or rent control status : https://sf.gov/information/learn-about-rent-increases#:~:text=2.-,Current%20allowed%20rent%20increase,Consumers%20in%20the%20Bay%20Area https://sf.gov/information/learn-about-rent-increases#:~:tex....
      - dualityoftapirs 4y ago
        Correct, but the "more than 60%" is including all forms of rent control. My main point is someone can be paying $3500 a month for a one bedroom apartment and it be considered a rent controlled unit. Edit - put another way, there's a sort of implication that if a unit is "rent controlled" then it is cheap, and this is not necessarily the case in the SF rental market.
        iancmceachern 4y ago
        True, and that same apartment would be $4500 without rent control
35208654 4y ago
“Manage to live”? Is that the standard for the richest country in the history of humanity? That’s some short sighted thinking. Are those “managing to live” saving for retirement? Can they see a doctor? Can they afford to have children? As for moving to a cheaper place… their jobs are in the city. That’s why they live there to begin with. Have you missed the inflation crises? Have you missed the absolute fleecing of the middle class due to stagnant wages? Have you missed the student debt crisis? Have you missed the disinvestment in black and brown communities? Have you missed the ramshackle, near collapse of public transit and other infrastructure? Have you missed the teacher/police/fire/EMT/911 operator shortage? Have you missed the homelessnesss/housing crises? What city have you been living in?
- southernplaces7 4y ago
  There are so many built-in assumptions under your comment that I don't even know where to begin unpackaging what parts of it. Briefly though, I live in Vancouver, a city that's Canada's version of say, San Francisco, and yes, many people find ways to get ahead without being rich or falling into the degrading traps you seem to think apply much more broadly than they do.

anony23 4y ago

"Manage" to live there, but not well. Maybe they pile 4 people intona four bedroom apartment and work 2 jobs to do it.

iancmceachern 4y ago
No, a lot of people have rent controlled apartments. This article says more than 60% of SF rental units are rent controlled...https://bungalow.com/articles/rent-control-in-san-francisco-everything-you-need-to-know https://bungalow.com/articles/rent-control-in-san-francisco-...
- dualityoftapirs 4y ago
  A key thing to note is that rent control in SF isn't quite what most people think of. The apartment itself is not locked to a specific price (which is how NYC rent control works, for example) but rather the lease between the landlord and master tenants can only increase so much per year. For example you can have a rent controlled apartment renting for $500 a month, that tenant leaves, and the new tenants would sign for $3000 a month. There's no requirement the new master tenants would get the $500 a month. Whereas I believe in NYC's rent control the apartment itself is set at $500 a month, and anyone who moves in, that's what they pay.
  - iancmceachern 4y ago
    Not quite. Your conflating several things. Rent control is different from rent stabilization is yet different from rent increase laws. Often cities have all 3. In SF the rent controlled properties, both for rent and for sale (yes you can buy super affordable apartments in SF if you don't exceed certain income) folks just have to make less than a certain amount a year. The income tiers are listed here, and are higher than I expect some would expect. https://sf.gov/reports/may-2022/income-and-rent-limits-inclusionary-rental-units https://sf.gov/reports/may-2022/income-and-rent-limits-inclu... There is also a citywide rent increase cap of 3.6% currently (its calculated based off inflation and other factors) on any and all rental units, regardless of income or rent control status : https://sf.gov/information/learn-about-rent-increases#:~:text=2.-,Current%20allowed%20rent%20increase,Consumers%20in%20the%20Bay%20Area https://sf.gov/information/learn-about-rent-increases#:~:tex....
    - dualityoftapirs 4y ago
      Correct, but the "more than 60%" is including all forms of rent control. My main point is someone can be paying $3500 a month for a one bedroom apartment and it be considered a rent controlled unit. Edit - put another way, there's a sort of implication that if a unit is "rent controlled" then it is cheap, and this is not necessarily the case in the SF rental market.
      - iancmceachern 4y ago
        True, and that same apartment would be $4500 without rent control

35208654 4y ago

“Manage to live”? Is that the standard for the richest country in the history of humanity? That’s some short sighted thinking. Are those “managing to live” saving for retirement? Can they see a doctor? Can they afford to have children? As for moving to a cheaper place… their jobs are in the city. That’s why they live there to begin with. Have you missed the inflation crises? Have you missed the absolute fleecing of the middle class due to stagnant wages? Have you missed the student debt crisis? Have you missed the disinvestment in black and brown communities? Have you missed the ramshackle, near collapse of public transit and other infrastructure? Have you missed the teacher/police/fire/EMT/911 operator shortage? Have you missed the homelessnesss/housing crises? What city have you been living in?

southernplaces7 4y ago
There are so many built-in assumptions under your comment that I don't even know where to begin unpackaging what parts of it. Briefly though, I live in Vancouver, a city that's Canada's version of say, San Francisco, and yes, many people find ways to get ahead without being rich or falling into the degrading traps you seem to think apply much more broadly than they do.