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> battery with 500 Wh/kg Wow, that's amazing, creeping up towards the energy density of gasoline at around 1200 Wh/kg Of course you don't have to lug around t
by elevaet 3y ago
> battery with 500 Wh/kg
Wow, that's amazing, creeping up towards the energy density of gasoline at around 1200 Wh/kg
Of course you don't have to lug around the spent gasoline after you've used it, but that's really the problem too innit?
- rippercushions 3y agoYes, it would seem preferable to reuse the same energy storage over and over again, as opposed to digging it out of the ground at huge expense, shipping it across the world, and then spreading it out into the environment as a cloud of toxic particles after one use.
- bsaul 3y agoyour analogy doesn't old : ice cars reuse their tank. it's not nitpicking, electricity production has a cost. It's just a different cycle of production / pollution.
- VBprogrammer 3y agoI wonder what it does to the other axises: cost, volumetric density, resilience and charging speed etc.
- oblio 3y agoThat's a problem for shipping and aviation. It's still a problem, but batteries can already do a lot of heavy lifting (and pulling).
- adwn 3y agoYou're forgetting to take into account that an electric drivetrain (power electronics and electric motor) is several times more efficient than a gasoline drivetrain (ICE motor and gearbox). It also weighs less.
- pawelk 3y agoIsn't it break even point, considering >60% of the gasoline energy is dissipated as heat, and <40% to make the wheels spin?
- ly3xqhl8g9 3y agoVarious theoretical energy densities of batteries and gasoline: lead acid 123 Wh/kg lithium ion 250 Wh/kg zinc-oxygen 1,084 Wh/kg sodium-oxygen 1,605 Wh/kg lithium-sulfur 2,600 Wh/kg magnesium-oxygen 6,800 Wh/kg aluminium-oxygen 8,100 Wh/kg lithium-air 11,140 Wh/kg gasoline 12,700 Wh/kg from 2022, Asad A. Naqvi et. al., Aprotic lithium air batteries with oxygen-selective membranes, Table 1, https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40243-021-00205-w https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40243-021-00205-w
- oblio 3y agoI wonder how close to mass production those intermediary technologies are. Bumping the energy density closer to something like lithium-sulfur would probably make 95% of ICE-based technology scrap heap tech.
- ly3xqhl8g9 3y agoIron-air batteries (1,200 Wh/kg), and in general metal-air [1], might bring a surprise after 2024: December 2022, "Form Energy will site first American iron-air battery manufacturing plant in Weirton, West Virginia" [2]. [1] 2017, Yanguang Li, Jun Lu, Metal–Air Batteries: Will They Be the Future Electrochemical Energy Storage Device of Choice? https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsenergylett.7b00119 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsenergylett.7b00119 Betteridge's law of headlines answers "no", but good overview. [2] https://formenergy.com/west-virginia-governor-jim-justice-announces-form-energy-will-site-first-american-battery-manufacturing-plant-in-weirton-creating-hundreds-of-jobs/ https://formenergy.com/west-virginia-governor-jim-justice-an...
- londons_explore 3y agoThe various "-air" batteries tend to have major downsides... They tend to get heavier as they discharge. They usually aren't rechargeable (or if they are, only a few times or with much lower energy densities). They tend to self-discharge within a few weeks of non-use.
- ketzu 3y ago> gasoline at around 1200 Wh/kg Aren't you missing a 0 there? Gasonline should be at 12 kWh/kg instead of 1.2. [1] https://chemistry.beloit.edu/edetc/SlideShow/slides/energy/density.html https://chemistry.beloit.edu/edetc/SlideShow/slides/energy/d...
- jackmott42 3y agoYou do have to lug the battery around even when depleted but electric motors are ~3 times more efficient than combustion engines, so if you got to energy density parity you would still have a much lighter car, all the time.