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Current mass produced batteries, which tend to hover around 260-300 Wh/kg. Higher density (but still under 500) are available, but in far smaller quantities for
by gibolt 3y ago
Current mass produced batteries, which tend to hover around 260-300 Wh/kg. Higher density (but still under 500) are available, but in far smaller quantities for a very high cost.
The exciting part of this announcement is that if anyone can scale manufacturing, it is them.
- oriel 3y agoReally it is encouraging for advancement areas like this. Reminds me of the "revolutionary battery checklist": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28025930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28025930 edit: removed the paste of the checklist because of spam.
- dzhiurgis 3y ago“No week goes by without a revolutionary battery technology” - Engadget, circa 2010
- gibolt 3y agoWhile this is true, a tiny start-up with big claims is different from the world's largest battery manufacturer (CATL) already spooling up production with the intent to scale.
- jackmott42 3y agoAnd that is why batteries have become so much better now than they were 20 years ago.
- magila 3y agoEh, not really. Most "battery breakthrough!" press releases are about some new exotic chemistry while most mass produced battery improvements in the last 20 years have come from incremental improvements to existing chemistries and better packaging.
- _ea1k 3y agoMeh, the devil's in the details with a lot of those announcements. A surprising number of them are things like... it will be 50% better 5-10 years from now! That's actually incremental improvement if you think about it in annual improvement terms.
- zamnos 3y agoIt is, except for the fact that the future isn't guaranteed, so there could be unforeseen problems with scaling up, and that 50% improvement never gets delivered. As mentioned upthread though, CATL has expertise in that area, and "end of this year" is so a trackable claim, unlike the claims about gallium-based batteries.
- _ea1k 3y agoI agree. Its also not uncommon that the "old" tech improves incrementally during the same timeframe, mitigating the seeming impact.
- Schroedingersat 3y agoHard carbon anodes were one of these "exotic" new elements, but are now just standard. Silicon anodes will be the same. Sodium ion still has shills screeching about how it'll never come despite being last year's news. Lithium Manganese batteries are another one of these exotic chemistries that arrived without fanfare.
- usrusr 3y agoHave they? Other than lithium based batteries getting cheaper per kilogram so that year by year, more battery use cases have switched over from inherently worse chemistries? Even just ten years ago, eneloop were still the hot thing for many applications outside of laptops, mobile phones and the odd Tesla (ten years ago was when Model S was still the fresh new successor to the converted Lotus)
- rootusrootus 3y agoIs eneloop not still very much a thing? Maybe not the brand, but the technology. The vast, vast majority of consumer devices using standardized battery sizes are AA or AAA, and that means NiMH. To go lithium means 18650, and I don't really see much of that happening outside flashlights and other niche products.
- s5300 3y agoWhy does going lithium mean 18650? 14500s have always existed. I think there’s even smaller than that but I haven’t personally checked in a bit.
- adoos 3y agoForm factor smaller than 1865 with energy dense formula is rare. Chinese made LFP but only a handful of mfgs make them anymore. So size doesn't matter, but it basically matters :D
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- chriscappuccio 3y agoLFP is going to be manufactured in north america soon
- eternityforest 3y agoNothing except flashlights and yard lights seem to use them either. Probably because they're not exactly safe enough for frequent swapping applications, consumers will drop them on their tin foil crack smoking rig and make a fire or something.
- notJim 3y agoCheap cynicism is fun, but Wh/kg has been steadily increasing since the '90s https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/eternally-five-years-away-no-batteries-are-improving-under-your-nose/3/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/eternally-five-years...
- walrus01 3y agoWhat battery pack that I can buy right now is 300Wh/kg? Sincerely curious because that's 50Wh/kg above what people are using in some very expensive UAVs.
- rdez6173 3y agoAmprius has 400+Wh/kg that are commercially available. I'm sure they ain't cheap, but the tech exists. https://amprius.com/products/ https://amprius.com/products/ Edit: well, I'm a dummy and OP said mass-produced. Sorry.
- ilyt 3y agoUAVs also have higher current requirement, and that means more weight "wasted" for chonkier electrodes Car batteries aren't pulling 50C worth of current
- frosted-flakes 3y agoDon't car batteries also have very high current requirements? Turning over an engine takes an enormous amount of power.
- mwint 3y agoGP is probably talking about EV main batteries, not the lead-acid 12v accessory/starter batteries.
- falcolas 3y agoMost batteries that run starters are not energy dense, they're typically standard lead acid batteries. FWIW, to provide the 225 amps (for a V8 starter motor) a Tesla car battery would only need a discharge capability of 3C (1C being around 80 amps), which is within its rated capabilities. This is also for batteries which provide higher voltages, so I'm vastly overestimating the C rate required. C is the unit for charge/discharge rates, and is based off the capacity of the battery.
- 3y ago
- tarunmuvvala 3y agoThe real question is, will this lead to reduction in cost? If yes, I hope they open-source it so that the fight against global warming can gain some momentum across the globe.