12 ms·
FAA selects sustainable design for new control towers at smaller airports
- hnburnsy 4y agoWhy aren't there virtual towers with zoomable and computer controlled camera arrays?
- SkyPuncher 4y agoWhat benefit would that offer? These towers still need to be manned.
- tjohns 4y agoAt least in theory... lower tower construction costs, lower ATC labor costs (especially in high cost-of-living areas), and economies of scale from colocating multiple towers into a single facility (i.g. ability to quickly reallocate controllers between tower sites based on observed traffic, or even having controllers operate two towers simultaneously if traffic is light). This last one is already done for approach control. Some areas have a consolidated TRACON facility, like NorCal Approach. At night they'll merge all the radio sectors together, and you end up talking to the same controller for half the state.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- freerobby 4y agoLots of ancient tech in control towers. The FAA is soliciting proposals, though. https://www.faa.gov/airports/planning_capacity/non_federal/remote_tower_systems https://www.faa.gov/airports/planning_capacity/non_federal/r...
- tssva 4y agoThe local airport near me has had an experimental remote tower system since 2018. Prior to this there was no tower which limited the types of aircraft which could use the airport and the services which could operate out of it. They were informed in February that SAAB, the provider of the remote tower service, and the FAA were unable to reach an agreement regarding final certification of the system. SAAB has withdrawn their application for final certification. The remote tower system must be shut down June 30th. I believe the air traffic controllers are located in the Kansas City area and the facility there will remain open because the system is certified and in use some places outside the US. The FAA is going to provide a mobile tower through September after which the town, which owns the airport, must enter a lease for the tower including manning it with controllers at a cost of $720k per year. The town is currently investigating how to fund the mobile tower and a permanent replacement tower. They are seeking grants and/or considering instituting landing fees. The permanent tower must be completed and certified within 5 years.
- toomuchtodo 4y agohttps://www.codot.gov/programs/remotetower https://www.codot.gov/programs/remotetower https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/pilots-urge-faa-not-to-end-virginia-airports-remote-tower-technology/3301456/ https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/pilots-urge-faa-not... https://aviationweek.com/business-aviation/airports-fbos-suppliers/faa-plans-stop-operating-model-remote-tower https://aviationweek.com/business-aviation/airports-fbos-sup... https://www.saab.com/products/digital-tower https://www.saab.com/products/digital-tower https://searidgetech.com/ https://searidgetech.com/
- hnburnsy 4y agothx!
- geoffeg 4y agoBecause the FAA moves at a glacial pace. It does seem to be getting better over the last few years though.
- paranoidrobot 4y agoLondon City Airport has such a digital tower. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWJq5Gs0mnA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWJq5Gs0mnA
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- lonelygirl15a 4y agoThere is exactly this in Leesburg, VA. https://www.leesburgva.gov/departments/airport/about-leesburg-executive-airport/remote-air-traffic-control-tower https://www.leesburgva.gov/departments/airport/about-leesbur... It's getting closed, though, and replaced with a physical tower. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2023/march/22/remote-tower-at-leesburg-executive-set-to-close https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2023/march/22/r...
- exabrial 4y agoI looked at the pictures and I predict roughly 4.7x cost overruns when actual construction takes place. Any takers? Cost is the most important factor in making green tech widespread, as has been proven time and time again. Building green is mostly solved problem, though we continue to make new advances. This nonsense is an exercise in expenditure. I’m sure if we folded the money trail it’d take us some interesting places.
- bobthepanda 4y agoI believe the idea is more about 'modular' construction. the towers in the press release are all end of life, and they need replacing, so you may as well toss in being green if you can.
- efitz 4y agoNow if only they could either modernize the ATC system or get out of the way and let the airlines do it.
- xeromal 4y agoI get what you're saying but the airlines are running on computer systems from the 80s that frequently have outages.
- killingtime74 4y agoLiterally this week Southwest grounded all flights due to IT issues....
- psanford 4y ago> All-electric building systems What? Are there current control towers that run on something besides electricity from the grid? What is this actually talking about, backup generators?
- toomuchtodo 4y agoNatural gas heat. It’s keeping in line with administration policy on climate change, electrification, etc. Building energy use is a substantial component of national energy consumption. Proper insulation and high performance building standards means heat pumps should be sufficient (and can run off diesel generators air traffic control infra would run on in a power outage regardless, as it’s critical infrastructure). Cost savings are there too, the grid gets cleaner and cheaper over time as renewables penetration hockey stick growth curve. Furnaces and boilers burn gas their entire lifetime. https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/commodities/energy https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/commodities/energy https://www.c2es.org/document/decarbonizing-u-s-buildings/ https://www.c2es.org/document/decarbonizing-u-s-buildings/
- nunuvit 4y agoWhat are penetration hockey sticks?
- toomuchtodo 4y agoReference to growth rate curve. Shape of hockey stick. Up we go. https://www.iea.org/news/renewable-electricity-growth-is-accelerating-faster-than-ever-worldwide-supporting-the-emergence-of-the-new-global-energy-economy https://www.iea.org/news/renewable-electricity-growth-is-acc... https://zenmo.com/en/photovoltaic-growth-reality-versus-projections-of-the-international-energy-agency-with-2018-update-2/ https://zenmo.com/en/photovoltaic-growth-reality-versus-proj... https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/05/16/a-fate-realized-1-tw-of-solar-to-be-deployed-annually-by-2030/ https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/05/16/a-fate-realized-1-tw-...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- walrus01 4y agoI wonder to what extent they can prefabricate and produce pieces of these that can arrive on site on DOT width/height compliant flatbed trucks.
- gnarbarian 4y agothe most sustainable design for a control tower is 8 UHD cameras on a pole. ATC doesn't like it though.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- gwill 4y agothere are more backup plans available with having humans on site, should anything go wrong. an emp or lightning strike could take out that pole.
- gnarbarian 4y agoLightening arrestors exist. We use them all the time on our cameras. they're more reliable than people.
- cyberax 4y agoEven easier solution: have a spare mast with cameras in a shed nearby.
- roamerz 4y agoHard to get the equivalent depth perception I imagine.
- newaccount74 4y agoI wondered why they did't lead with a picture, until I scrolled down to the picture. These towers are not pretty.
- NegativeLatency 4y agoKnow any good looking ones?
- MarkSweep 4y agoThe SFO one is kinda cool: https://www.google.com/search?q=sfo+control+tower&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=sfo+control+tower&tbm=isch
- newaccount74 4y agoPretty much every tower looks better than this abomination. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=airport+tower&hps=1&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=airport+tower&hps=1&iax=images&ia=...
- pininja 4y agoThose are all large airport towers. I imagine most of those are well outside the budget where this design will be used. This new design would be compared against stuff like this. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=small+air+traffic+control+tower&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=small+air+traffic+control+tower&ia...
- rkagerer 4y agoIs that an ATC Tower or a water tower?
- ciconia 4y ago"I don't think that word means what you think it means." > helping our nation’s airports support more travelers, grow their local economies and prepare for the future of low-carbon aviation. I doubt a vision of growth is compatible with "sustainability". In fact, I find it highly unlikely.
- XorNot 4y agoYou can synthesize jet fuel from CO2 and renewable energy. Or biologically derived products. These are all use cases where consumption won't outstrip capacity, because airline travel is much more efficient then car travel, which is your other alternative unless someone wants to actually build high-speed rail.
- klodolph 4y agoBiofuel is not a solution. Not now, at least. It’s just so damn inefficient, you are better off with an oil well, if you care about the environment. Airline travel is only better than cars if you compare it to a 1-passenger car, and then ignore anything other than CO2 emissions. It’s pretty bad.
- MichaelZuo 4y agoI've always thought a carbon credit/tax, or more broadly an externality credit/tax, system, would resolve these issues. Then the users will pay the real cost always, and obviates the need to ponder.
- HPsquared 4y agoThat works until governments realize they have an incentive to maximize environmental damage so they can bring in more tax. There is the risk of the same old game (never solve a problem so that it can be "managed" forever)
- MichaelZuo 4y ago
- jschlesser 4y agoUnrecorded phrases from the approval meeting. It looks 'sturdy'. I didn't know they made LEGOs at this scale. I knew ChatGPT would affect a lot of professions but I didn't think it would be this fast. Future proof, It blends in seamlessly to the Bladerunneresque environment we imagine the future will look like. We already removed all the 'slack' from the project.
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoCheap, short-hop electric flight is going to redraw the map in many ways, will be interesting to see who wins and who loses. I guess islands might be the first big winners.
- cjrp 4y agoAn electric conversion for the BN-2 Islander was being developed for exactly this purpose; island-hopping around Scotland. It looks like they've switched to hydrogen fuel cells now though - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Fresson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Fresson