3 ms·

> if such a thing truly exists… It exists. Sounds like NIH got hijacked by a bunch of people who believed otherwise and required proof of pathobiology first.

redeeman 4y ago
[flagged]
bheadmaster 4y ago
I am always surprised by the amount of people on HN who just put out statements like "it exists" without any explanation, as if it informs anyone of anything else but the implicit "[I am convinced that] it exists". Like, why? Can you share any more information? Some reasons on why you're convinced of that statement? Or do you consider yourself so important that you expect your opinions to be taken as real arguments, as facts, as something self-evident?
- smrtinsert 4y ago
  Maybe because it takes the bare minimum of effort to find information on it. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/long-term-effects/index.html?s_cid=11840:long%20covid:sem.ga:p:RG:GM:gen:PTN:FY23 https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/long-term-effects/...
  - bheadmaster 4y ago
    A website written by a US government agency doesn't convince me that there's a disease out there which has exactly the same symptoms as being locked inside the house for months, and whose only method of detection is through those symptoms.
- bsder 4y ago
  Maybe because everybody who has relatives over 50 knows somebody with Long Covid--probably multiple people. What I don't believe is that this kind of syndrome is specific to Covid, I suspect it holds for every serious virus you get infected with. The only difference this time is that the medical community is watching. The fact that Epstein-Barr is causative with MS and HPV is causative with cervical cancer shows that the damage that even fairly mild virii do persists for a very long time. Any claim that a virus doesn't cause persistent damage simply means you haven't looked very hard.
  - tssva 4y ago
    I am 54 and have living parents, aunts, uncles and cousins which are significantly older. The majority of my friends are over 50. I don't know anyone with long COVID.
    - MrMan 4y ago
      the only people I know with long anything are people who had chronic fatigue and long lyme disease but these two or three people are all wealthy neurotics
  - TexanFeller 4y ago
    > Maybe because everybody who has relatives over 50 knows somebody with Long Covid--probably multiple people. Of the dozens of people in my extended family that are 50+yo, few of whom were covid cautious, zero of them have reported symptoms resembling long covid. My parents are elderly as are all of the people they know. Zero of their friends have reported long covid, but they did know a couple of folks that died of it.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  After nearly three years of arguing about it, I'm done with that. Spend your own time looking up answers, that isn't my job. (Actually considering I've known about post-viral ME/CFS since sometime in the early-90s that makes it going on nearly 30 years of knowing about it. And I'm deeply uninterested in wasting my life debating about it with internet strangers.)
  - bheadmaster 4y ago
    Considering your willingness to write out your opinions and "correct" people who are expressing skepticism, you obviously aren't done arguing about it, you're just done doing that in any non-obnoxious way.
  - thehappypm 4y ago
    Why comment at all?
TexanFeller 4y ago
> > if such a thing truly exists… > It exists. My experience is heavily biased towards people at risk for long covid. I live in TX surrounded by people who weren't too serious about covid. I have friends that got covid 3-4 times. I know people with actual measurable lung damage that have long term consequences in that sense, but I know _zero_ people with anything resembling "long covid". No one I know knows anyone who has long covid. I believe it exists because a wide range of other viruses have occasional mysterious long term effects, but what I don't believe is that it's possible for it to be anywhere close to as common as it's purported to be(figures like 10-30% of those infected were thrown around by news outlets back when I was paying attention). My personal bet is that the majority of peoples' symptoms are psychogenic with a small minority experiencing physiological effects worth studying.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  > My personal bet is that the majority of peoples' symptoms are psychogenic You state that you don't know anyone who has long COVID one way or the other and then state that it must all be "psychogenic". If it were that common to have fake long COVID you'd think you would know someone who was faking it. Instead you have no experience with it and you're making sweeping pronouncements about it. Yes, the studies finding 10-30% rates of long COVID were flawed, but they were usually of people who were hospitalized and they may have included the people you know who actually had lung damage. And 3 million people can have long COVID and you might not know one of them since that is an incidence of 1-in-100 and even if someone you knew had it, it might not be so totally disabling that they couldn't keep up appearances and hide it from you.

redeeman 4y ago

[flagged]

bheadmaster 4y ago

I am always surprised by the amount of people on HN who just put out statements like "it exists" without any explanation, as if it informs anyone of anything else but the implicit "[I am convinced that] it exists". Like, why? Can you share any more information? Some reasons on why you're convinced of that statement? Or do you consider yourself so important that you expect your opinions to be taken as real arguments, as facts, as something self-evident?

smrtinsert 4y ago
Maybe because it takes the bare minimum of effort to find information on it. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/long-term-effects/index.html?s_cid=11840:long%20covid:sem.ga:p:RG:GM:gen:PTN:FY23 https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/long-term-effects/...
- bheadmaster 4y ago
  A website written by a US government agency doesn't convince me that there's a disease out there which has exactly the same symptoms as being locked inside the house for months, and whose only method of detection is through those symptoms.
bsder 4y ago
Maybe because everybody who has relatives over 50 knows somebody with Long Covid--probably multiple people. What I don't believe is that this kind of syndrome is specific to Covid, I suspect it holds for every serious virus you get infected with. The only difference this time is that the medical community is watching. The fact that Epstein-Barr is causative with MS and HPV is causative with cervical cancer shows that the damage that even fairly mild virii do persists for a very long time. Any claim that a virus doesn't cause persistent damage simply means you haven't looked very hard.
- tssva 4y ago
  I am 54 and have living parents, aunts, uncles and cousins which are significantly older. The majority of my friends are over 50. I don't know anyone with long COVID.
  - MrMan 4y ago
    the only people I know with long anything are people who had chronic fatigue and long lyme disease but these two or three people are all wealthy neurotics
- TexanFeller 4y ago
  > Maybe because everybody who has relatives over 50 knows somebody with Long Covid--probably multiple people. Of the dozens of people in my extended family that are 50+yo, few of whom were covid cautious, zero of them have reported symptoms resembling long covid. My parents are elderly as are all of the people they know. Zero of their friends have reported long covid, but they did know a couple of folks that died of it.
lamontcg 4y ago
After nearly three years of arguing about it, I'm done with that. Spend your own time looking up answers, that isn't my job. (Actually considering I've known about post-viral ME/CFS since sometime in the early-90s that makes it going on nearly 30 years of knowing about it. And I'm deeply uninterested in wasting my life debating about it with internet strangers.)
- bheadmaster 4y ago
  Considering your willingness to write out your opinions and "correct" people who are expressing skepticism, you obviously aren't done arguing about it, you're just done doing that in any non-obnoxious way.
- thehappypm 4y ago
  Why comment at all?

TexanFeller 4y ago

> > if such a thing truly exists… > It exists. My experience is heavily biased towards people at risk for long covid. I live in TX surrounded by people who weren't too serious about covid. I have friends that got covid 3-4 times. I know people with actual measurable lung damage that have long term consequences in that sense, but I know _zero_ people with anything resembling "long covid". No one I know knows anyone who has long covid. I believe it exists because a wide range of other viruses have occasional mysterious long term effects, but what I don't believe is that it's possible for it to be anywhere close to as common as it's purported to be(figures like 10-30% of those infected were thrown around by news outlets back when I was paying attention). My personal bet is that the majority of peoples' symptoms are psychogenic with a small minority experiencing physiological effects worth studying.

lamontcg 4y ago
> My personal bet is that the majority of peoples' symptoms are psychogenic You state that you don't know anyone who has long COVID one way or the other and then state that it must all be "psychogenic". If it were that common to have fake long COVID you'd think you would know someone who was faking it. Instead you have no experience with it and you're making sweeping pronouncements about it. Yes, the studies finding 10-30% rates of long COVID were flawed, but they were usually of people who were hospitalized and they may have included the people you know who actually had lung damage. And 3 million people can have long COVID and you might not know one of them since that is an incidence of 1-in-100 and even if someone you knew had it, it might not be so totally disabling that they couldn't keep up appearances and hide it from you.