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One of the most highly upvoted Reddit posts on /r/fuckcars mocks large pickups compared to the utility of a kei truck. https://reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/s

One of the most highly upvoted Reddit posts on /r/fuckcars mocks large pickups compared to the utility of a kei truck. https://reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/sdrgv3/japanese_trucks_vs_american_trucks/ https://reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/sdrgv3/japanese_truck... A kei truck has about 90% the bed length of a pickup while being a lot more nimble. The lower bed is more ergonomic to load and unload too.

boredumb 4y ago
Where I live the hills would stall that kei out before you got to any real hills, with nothing at all added to the bed.
- thebooktocome 4y ago
  Japan is famously mountainous. I can’t imagine they don’t road test them on “real hills”.
  - pookah 4y ago
    Japan doesn't have rural American dirt roads.
    - freetime2 4y ago
      Can you elaborate on what American dirt roads means? Japan has tons of dirt/gravel roads. A typical operating environment for a kei truck might look like this: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9510791,138.6746615,3a,75y,230.52h,80.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s79ogvRHvAk1idPt0AmV3hg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9510791,138.6746615,3a,75y,2... They are pretty capable offroad vehicles.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- tlear 4y ago
  Those things are used in mountains in Japan without any issues at all, they are very light.
- aae42 4y ago
  Gear ratios, you might just not be getting up the hills very quickly
- thesuitonym 4y ago
  Why do you believe that?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- themodelplumber 4y ago
  I rode in kei-trucks and kei-vans with an adult in every seat, up some very steep and long hills in Japan. We weren't exactly in the fast lane, but there was not any mention of the van not being up to the task. It felt just fine. In fact my friend was SO excited about his new van (for 1998) that for a while, he was bragging about every last little aspect up and down those hills, every time we rode with him. He lived in a gigantic danchi at the top of one of the steepest hills around, and still loved that thing. (He worked as a furnace-jumper-inner / furnace-insides-scraper at an auto recycling place all day, and had molten aluminum burns on his arms and sometimes face...I respected the heck out of that guy for what he did to support his family. I think he runs an IT business in Brazil now.)
- kalleboo 4y ago
  Our family car is a kei minivan (microvan?) with power sliding doors (=heavy) and everything. No trouble going up long or steep hills in windy mountain roads with the whole family of 4+luggage in the car. No trouble going up long hills at highway speed (120 km/h) with two adult friends in the back. Aircon on and everything. Works great.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
Missing the point. Many people buying inefficient oversized pickup trucks don't care that there's smaller and more efficient options out there, but they do it for the status simbol and ego lifting, not to be utilitarian and efficient. I see these monster pick-up trucks more and more in European cities nowadays too, F-150s, Dodge Rams, with some fancy paintjob and big wheels but who's bed hasn't seen any actual use carrying anything because the owner is usually some middle-aged Ray-Ban wearing divorced dad with money, using it as a toy, trying to look cool. Power to him I guess, but those monster trucks are horrible for visibility and safety of cyclists, pedestrians, small cars, etc. Most utilitarians here, blue collar workers, people for whom their vehicles are a tool for the job, mostly drive white vans here, as they're a lot more practical and economical than big trucks.
- nathanaldensr 4y ago
  Huge lifted trucks are just flashy iPhones in another form--jewelry and signals of wealth to others.
- flappyeagle 4y ago
  It’s not missing the point. It’s making the point.
- eldritch_4ier 4y ago
  Not even necessarily ego or whatever. Some people just like trucks, and a car's "reputation" is part of the purchase decision for many buyers. It's why men don't buy Beetles or Priuses as often as women and women don't buy trucks as often as men for instance. Many people express themselves with their car.
- codalan 4y ago
  Sprinter vans are more practical than modern pickups. You can fit a few sheets of drywall into it, lock up your stuff, and keep everything out of the elements. If you have a windowless van, you have everything out of sight, as well.
- glitcher 4y ago
  Another factor is safety. I don't share this point of view, but I have seen others purposely choose large, heavy vehicles for family members so they stand a better chance surviving a bad collision. If you've ever sat in traffic driving a small car surrounded by large vehicles it definitely starts to sink in that you are at a distinct disadvantage if anything goes wrong. So this trend is also at least partially about this weird arms race of wanting to feel safer in the presence of ever larger vehicles.
nicbou 4y ago
For me, European multipurpose vehicles (sprinter vans?) were a revelation. An old Renault Kangoo is cheap to buy, cheap to drive and cheap to maintain. It's a small, simple car that drives and parks like a small sedan, but carries as much as a small pickup truck. I can fit a bed, 3 months of luggage and a bicycle in mine. In a pinch, it's a brilliant microcamper. It's a big box on wheels. You can do what you want with it. It's not a nice car, but it was designed to serve real user needs. That's why they're everywhere from Morocco to Poland.
- quarantine 4y ago
  The Citroën Berlingo really is one of the best cars they made
  - lm28469 4y ago
    The c15 is an icon too, such a classic, produced from 1984 until 2006, it can carry almost as much as it weights. And it was designed to fit a full euro palette in the back https://images.caradisiac.com/images/0/9/8/4/190984/S0-route-de-nuit-c15-683978.jpg https://images.caradisiac.com/images/0/9/8/4/190984/S0-route...
    - sofixa 4y ago
      There is this amazing Twitter thread comparing the Citroen C15 (a design from the 1980s) to a modern American pickup and a modern British SUV, with the Citroen blowing them out of the water in most scenarios: https://twitter.com/jmaris_/status/1570889945551863808 https://twitter.com/jmaris_/status/1570889945551863808
      - lm28469 4y ago
        Aha that's amazing. It would be nice to retrofit them with electric engines, but I doubt that would be commercially feasible, as much as I love them I wouldn't want to crash in that above 20kph
nilespotter 4y ago
I would much, much rather have a new $70k Ford F150 Raptor than a tiny Japanese truck . Honestly a redditor - perhaps the most odious group on the Iternet - recommending the tiny Japanese truck over the F150 is a good enough reason to prefer the opposite; a redditor on "fuckcars" is a GREAT reason to prefer the opposite.
- autophagian 4y ago
  Why?
  - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
    Because people who hate a thing are generally not the most knowledgeable about it and even if they know their judgement is clouded by hate. They only like the alternative to be contrarian. I'm not gonna ask PETA for tips on raising beef steers, I'm not gonna ask Joe Biden what gun I should buy and I'm not gonna ask /r/fuckcars what car I should buy. And this is on top of the usual Reddit circle jerks and groupthink that make asking for advice there for anything of meaningful stakes questionable in general.
  - throitallaway 4y ago
    "Own the libs" is a mantra for some people.
  - nilespotter 4y ago
    Basically because it's a high-mid-tier, nice modern car. Comparatively it has a quieter and smoother ride will allow me to make phone calls on my commute, using carplay to make the calls, read messages to me, and play music through the incredible sounding large badass speakers. The ride is much, much, much smoother. It'll be much more comfortable for a long road trip. There will be more room in the cab for stuff like say, my wife AND my dog. It comes with a warranty that I can use at any number of locations near me. Parts are still made for it and I can buy them here. It has R17 tires, 4 wheel drive, and anti-lock braking, electronic traction assist, TPMS, it will tell me when there might be ice on the road so I should proceed with caution, it has an advanced cruise control system with radar and lane keep assist, etc., etc., etc.
echelon 4y ago
The /r/fuckcars folks are being a little dishonest here. As another commenter mentioned, this is like asking a vegan for steak recommendations at a restaurant. Subaru Sambar (kei truck) towing capacity: 1,300 lbs Ford F-150 towing capacity: 5,000 to 11,300 lbs Ford F-250 Shelby edition towing capacity: 24,200 pounds And that's just one additional dimension where these vehicles significantly differ. These vehicles are utilitarian workhorses great for contracting, construction, farming (eg. hauling livestock), towing (eg. other cars, trailers, mobile BBQ, etc.), boating, leisure [1], etc. I live in an urban area close enough to the forest, lakes, and pastures to see all of these uses frequently. The electric version will power job sites, camp sites, and help with disaster recovery. It's going to sell like hot cakes. [1] https://www.f150forum.com/f34/how-pull-jeep-out-mud-130086/#post1317551 https://www.f150forum.com/f34/how-pull-jeep-out-mud-130086/#...
- porphyra 4y ago
  The point isn't that the smaller truck is an equally capable vehicle. The point is to make fun of people who don't need a truck but are getting an overkill vehicle as a status symbol, all the while people who actually need to transport goods can still get a lot done with a tiny kei truck.
  - chrisco255 4y ago
    If everyone has one, it's not a status symbol. The article talks about using the Kei truck as a replacement for a UTV/Side-by-Side, not for a daily truck. These /r/fuckcars people have never done real work in their lives and are just larping. 1100 pound tow capacity couldn't even tow most empty trailers.
    - kalleboo 4y ago
      > If everyone has one, it's not a status symbol iPhones somehow manage to be a status symbol even with 50% of the US population owning one
      - 4y ago
fomine3 4y ago
I know they have never ridden kei trucks. I'm a 175cm Japanese and its seat and space is obviously uncomfortable. It's fine for the purpose (carrying farm equipment and other stuff, drive max like 10km at 60km/s) but not comparable with richer trucks. Looks better to compare with 90s Hilux.
- SECProto 4y ago
  I'm a 185cm non-Japanese, and kei truck seat and space has been just fine for me. You can't recline the seats obviously, but that's not why you're in the truck

boredumb 4y ago

Where I live the hills would stall that kei out before you got to any real hills, with nothing at all added to the bed.

thebooktocome 4y ago
Japan is famously mountainous. I can’t imagine they don’t road test them on “real hills”.
- pookah 4y ago
  Japan doesn't have rural American dirt roads.
  - freetime2 4y ago
    Can you elaborate on what American dirt roads means? Japan has tons of dirt/gravel roads. A typical operating environment for a kei truck might look like this: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9510791,138.6746615,3a,75y,230.52h,80.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s79ogvRHvAk1idPt0AmV3hg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9510791,138.6746615,3a,75y,2... They are pretty capable offroad vehicles.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tlear 4y ago
Those things are used in mountains in Japan without any issues at all, they are very light.
aae42 4y ago
Gear ratios, you might just not be getting up the hills very quickly
thesuitonym 4y ago
Why do you believe that?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
themodelplumber 4y ago
I rode in kei-trucks and kei-vans with an adult in every seat, up some very steep and long hills in Japan. We weren't exactly in the fast lane, but there was not any mention of the van not being up to the task. It felt just fine. In fact my friend was SO excited about his new van (for 1998) that for a while, he was bragging about every last little aspect up and down those hills, every time we rode with him. He lived in a gigantic danchi at the top of one of the steepest hills around, and still loved that thing. (He worked as a furnace-jumper-inner / furnace-insides-scraper at an auto recycling place all day, and had molten aluminum burns on his arms and sometimes face...I respected the heck out of that guy for what he did to support his family. I think he runs an IT business in Brazil now.)
kalleboo 4y ago
Our family car is a kei minivan (microvan?) with power sliding doors (=heavy) and everything. No trouble going up long or steep hills in windy mountain roads with the whole family of 4+luggage in the car. No trouble going up long hills at highway speed (120 km/h) with two adult friends in the back. Aircon on and everything. Works great.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

Missing the point. Many people buying inefficient oversized pickup trucks don't care that there's smaller and more efficient options out there, but they do it for the status simbol and ego lifting, not to be utilitarian and efficient. I see these monster pick-up trucks more and more in European cities nowadays too, F-150s, Dodge Rams, with some fancy paintjob and big wheels but who's bed hasn't seen any actual use carrying anything because the owner is usually some middle-aged Ray-Ban wearing divorced dad with money, using it as a toy, trying to look cool. Power to him I guess, but those monster trucks are horrible for visibility and safety of cyclists, pedestrians, small cars, etc. Most utilitarians here, blue collar workers, people for whom their vehicles are a tool for the job, mostly drive white vans here, as they're a lot more practical and economical than big trucks.

nathanaldensr 4y ago
Huge lifted trucks are just flashy iPhones in another form--jewelry and signals of wealth to others.
flappyeagle 4y ago
It’s not missing the point. It’s making the point.
eldritch_4ier 4y ago
Not even necessarily ego or whatever. Some people just like trucks, and a car's "reputation" is part of the purchase decision for many buyers. It's why men don't buy Beetles or Priuses as often as women and women don't buy trucks as often as men for instance. Many people express themselves with their car.
codalan 4y ago
Sprinter vans are more practical than modern pickups. You can fit a few sheets of drywall into it, lock up your stuff, and keep everything out of the elements. If you have a windowless van, you have everything out of sight, as well.
glitcher 4y ago
Another factor is safety. I don't share this point of view, but I have seen others purposely choose large, heavy vehicles for family members so they stand a better chance surviving a bad collision. If you've ever sat in traffic driving a small car surrounded by large vehicles it definitely starts to sink in that you are at a distinct disadvantage if anything goes wrong. So this trend is also at least partially about this weird arms race of wanting to feel safer in the presence of ever larger vehicles.

nicbou 4y ago

For me, European multipurpose vehicles (sprinter vans?) were a revelation. An old Renault Kangoo is cheap to buy, cheap to drive and cheap to maintain. It's a small, simple car that drives and parks like a small sedan, but carries as much as a small pickup truck. I can fit a bed, 3 months of luggage and a bicycle in mine. In a pinch, it's a brilliant microcamper. It's a big box on wheels. You can do what you want with it. It's not a nice car, but it was designed to serve real user needs. That's why they're everywhere from Morocco to Poland.

quarantine 4y ago
The Citroën Berlingo really is one of the best cars they made
- lm28469 4y ago
  The c15 is an icon too, such a classic, produced from 1984 until 2006, it can carry almost as much as it weights. And it was designed to fit a full euro palette in the back https://images.caradisiac.com/images/0/9/8/4/190984/S0-route-de-nuit-c15-683978.jpg https://images.caradisiac.com/images/0/9/8/4/190984/S0-route...
  - sofixa 4y ago
    There is this amazing Twitter thread comparing the Citroen C15 (a design from the 1980s) to a modern American pickup and a modern British SUV, with the Citroen blowing them out of the water in most scenarios: https://twitter.com/jmaris_/status/1570889945551863808 https://twitter.com/jmaris_/status/1570889945551863808
    - lm28469 4y ago
      Aha that's amazing. It would be nice to retrofit them with electric engines, but I doubt that would be commercially feasible, as much as I love them I wouldn't want to crash in that above 20kph

nilespotter 4y ago

I would much, much rather have a new $70k Ford F150 Raptor than a tiny Japanese truck . Honestly a redditor - perhaps the most odious group on the Iternet - recommending the tiny Japanese truck over the F150 is a good enough reason to prefer the opposite; a redditor on "fuckcars" is a GREAT reason to prefer the opposite.

autophagian 4y ago
Why?
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  Because people who hate a thing are generally not the most knowledgeable about it and even if they know their judgement is clouded by hate. They only like the alternative to be contrarian. I'm not gonna ask PETA for tips on raising beef steers, I'm not gonna ask Joe Biden what gun I should buy and I'm not gonna ask /r/fuckcars what car I should buy. And this is on top of the usual Reddit circle jerks and groupthink that make asking for advice there for anything of meaningful stakes questionable in general.
- throitallaway 4y ago
  "Own the libs" is a mantra for some people.
- nilespotter 4y ago
  Basically because it's a high-mid-tier, nice modern car. Comparatively it has a quieter and smoother ride will allow me to make phone calls on my commute, using carplay to make the calls, read messages to me, and play music through the incredible sounding large badass speakers. The ride is much, much, much smoother. It'll be much more comfortable for a long road trip. There will be more room in the cab for stuff like say, my wife AND my dog. It comes with a warranty that I can use at any number of locations near me. Parts are still made for it and I can buy them here. It has R17 tires, 4 wheel drive, and anti-lock braking, electronic traction assist, TPMS, it will tell me when there might be ice on the road so I should proceed with caution, it has an advanced cruise control system with radar and lane keep assist, etc., etc., etc.

echelon 4y ago

The /r/fuckcars folks are being a little dishonest here. As another commenter mentioned, this is like asking a vegan for steak recommendations at a restaurant. Subaru Sambar (kei truck) towing capacity: 1,300 lbs Ford F-150 towing capacity: 5,000 to 11,300 lbs Ford F-250 Shelby edition towing capacity: 24,200 pounds And that's just one additional dimension where these vehicles significantly differ. These vehicles are utilitarian workhorses great for contracting, construction, farming (eg. hauling livestock), towing (eg. other cars, trailers, mobile BBQ, etc.), boating, leisure [1], etc. I live in an urban area close enough to the forest, lakes, and pastures to see all of these uses frequently. The electric version will power job sites, camp sites, and help with disaster recovery. It's going to sell like hot cakes. [1] https://www.f150forum.com/f34/how-pull-jeep-out-mud-130086/#post1317551 https://www.f150forum.com/f34/how-pull-jeep-out-mud-130086/#...

porphyra 4y ago
The point isn't that the smaller truck is an equally capable vehicle. The point is to make fun of people who don't need a truck but are getting an overkill vehicle as a status symbol, all the while people who actually need to transport goods can still get a lot done with a tiny kei truck.
- chrisco255 4y ago
  If everyone has one, it's not a status symbol. The article talks about using the Kei truck as a replacement for a UTV/Side-by-Side, not for a daily truck. These /r/fuckcars people have never done real work in their lives and are just larping. 1100 pound tow capacity couldn't even tow most empty trailers.
  - kalleboo 4y ago
    > If everyone has one, it's not a status symbol iPhones somehow manage to be a status symbol even with 50% of the US population owning one
    - 4y ago

fomine3 4y ago

I know they have never ridden kei trucks. I'm a 175cm Japanese and its seat and space is obviously uncomfortable. It's fine for the purpose (carrying farm equipment and other stuff, drive max like 10km at 60km/s) but not comparable with richer trucks. Looks better to compare with 90s Hilux.

SECProto 4y ago
I'm a 185cm non-Japanese, and kei truck seat and space has been just fine for me. You can't recline the seats obviously, but that's not why you're in the truck