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As I emailed to Path's support, our 3-4 year old children's schools, bus companies, physicians, pharmacies and our family lawyer were in that contact list Ok,

As I emailed to Path's support, our 3-4 year old children's schools, bus companies, physicians, pharmacies and our family lawyer were in that contact list Ok, I'm going to pick on you for a second. Hold the downvotes everyone! Let me explain. This seems like a bit of a knee-jerk reaction akin to "think of the children!" or the whole child porn scare-mongering that politicians engage in that we on HN are always criticizing. I recognize that Path screwed up, big-time, but I'm unclear on why them having the information you cited, along with dozens or hundreds of other contacts from your address book, for millions of users, constitutes some kind of terrible threat to your children. I mean, their schools, their bus companies? How is that even remotely useful information to anyone? I think there's plenty to criticize here from just the high-level perspective of "they used my contacts without my permission", without use the children scare-mongering tactic. But maybe there's a specific threat in mind that I'm not thinking of? Anyway, just thought your response was a little over the top, and more informed by emotion than reason. Ok, now everyone can downvote :)

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
- mishmash 15y ago
  One of my kids has special needs. This means he rides a certain bus and goes to a certain school. It would be trivial to uniquely identify him for the rest of his LIFE with only the information contained in my contacts list. So now, without consent, this "private" "friends and family"-based app I installed on my phone, plus it's company, plus any other company they choose to do business with, or any entity that acquires them in perpetuity, or any data mining, social profiling, credit bureau, can start building far-reaching and long-lasting profiles of a four year old little boy that needs a extra help. What part of that confuses you? p.s. this could have been avoided with a dozen lines of code via a dialog box.
  - toadi 15y ago
    Actually there is a simple solution for your problem. Don't use social apps. Especially not if they are free! Do you also buy snake oil if it comes with a document using lots of difficult sounding words but ends saying it cures everything?
mishmash 15y ago
> I'm unclear on why them having the information you cited First of all, my wife and I actually read and attempted to analyze Path's Terms and Privacy Policy before joining. They did not in ANY WAY have our permission, either implicitly or explicitly to collect private information about our children, who are, 3 and 4 years old. > along with dozens or hundreds of other contacts from your address book From path.com/about Path should be private by default. Forever. You should always be in control of your information and experience. I was never once asked, agreed to, or gave consent to allow anyone to collect sensitive information about where are children are schooled at, what buses they ride, where they receive medical treatment at, or OTHER PLACES I LEFT OUT OF THE ORIGINAL LIST BECAUSE THEY ARE PRIVATE TO MY FAMILY. :) > for millions of users "kill one, it's murder - kill 1,000,000 it's a statistic" - this isn't about your children - it's about mine. ;) > constitutes some kind of terrible threat to your children Where did I say this was a "terrible threat" to my children? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't - bottom line is we did not consent to it. And perhaps we just want to protect our underage children from having behaviorial profiles or credit risk assessments built up on them before they reach kindergarten. Interestingly enough, according to Path it is VERY reasonable that I should protect my children's information: We take reasonable measures to protect your personal information in an effort to prevent loss, misuse and unauthorized access, disclosure, alteration and destruction. Please be aware, however, that despite our efforts, no security measures are perfect or impenetrable and no method of data transmission can be guaranteed against any interception or other type of misuse. Combined with: (You)...accept all risks of unauthorized access to the Registration Data and any other information you provide to us. My risk, right? > But maybe there's a specific threat in mind that I'm not thinking of? Yes, there is. And I acknowledge that you might live in a world where you have no problem allowing anyone in the world to know any detail they can illicitly sneak out of your phone about you, your family, and your friends - but most of the rest of us don't. For fuck's sake a UIKit dialog box and handler code is less than a dozen lines of code and then NONE OF THIS WOULD BE AN ISSUE. > Anyway, just thought your response was a little over the top, and more informed by emotion than reason. I'm curious, do you have a spouse or children?
- baddox 15y ago
  > They did not in ANY WAY have our permission, either implicitly or explicitly to collect private information about our children, who are, 3 and 4 years old. What are you talking about? Do you expect them to perform complex data analysis to figure out that certain contacts are young children, and then explicitly ask permission to share those? Or do you expect them to preemptively ask for any potential sensitive contact information? "Can we use your children's information?" "Can we use your in-laws' information?" "Can we use the address of the President's safehouse?" Etc.
gmaslov 15y ago
Having all that information (school, doctor, lawyer, pest control company, health insurer, employer, credit card company, ...) about one person or a family, together in one place, is a social-engineering / identity-theft cornucopia. Imagine if Path had a data breach resulting in this contacts database floating around the internet. Now most people's response to that kind of threat is to think "I'm just nobody important, no one would ever go to the trouble of using this information to impersonate me or otherwise make my life difficult." Probably you are underestimating one or more of: (a) your importance, meaning how much money someone stands to gain by impersonating you, (b) the gullibility/apathy of customer service reps at the companies you interact with, or possibly (c) the amount of free time and/or perversity of someone who will fuck with you just for the lulz.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

mishmash 15y ago
One of my kids has special needs. This means he rides a certain bus and goes to a certain school. It would be trivial to uniquely identify him for the rest of his LIFE with only the information contained in my contacts list. So now, without consent, this "private" "friends and family"-based app I installed on my phone, plus it's company, plus any other company they choose to do business with, or any entity that acquires them in perpetuity, or any data mining, social profiling, credit bureau, can start building far-reaching and long-lasting profiles of a four year old little boy that needs a extra help. What part of that confuses you? p.s. this could have been avoided with a dozen lines of code via a dialog box.
- toadi 15y ago
  Actually there is a simple solution for your problem. Don't use social apps. Especially not if they are free! Do you also buy snake oil if it comes with a document using lots of difficult sounding words but ends saying it cures everything?

mishmash 15y ago

> I'm unclear on why them having the information you cited First of all, my wife and I actually read and attempted to analyze Path's Terms and Privacy Policy before joining. They did not in ANY WAY have our permission, either implicitly or explicitly to collect private information about our children, who are, 3 and 4 years old. > along with dozens or hundreds of other contacts from your address book From path.com/about Path should be private by default. Forever. You should always be in control of your information and experience. I was never once asked, agreed to, or gave consent to allow anyone to collect sensitive information about where are children are schooled at, what buses they ride, where they receive medical treatment at, or OTHER PLACES I LEFT OUT OF THE ORIGINAL LIST BECAUSE THEY ARE PRIVATE TO MY FAMILY. :) > for millions of users "kill one, it's murder - kill 1,000,000 it's a statistic" - this isn't about your children - it's about mine. ;) > constitutes some kind of terrible threat to your children Where did I say this was a "terrible threat" to my children? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't - bottom line is we did not consent to it. And perhaps we just want to protect our underage children from having behaviorial profiles or credit risk assessments built up on them before they reach kindergarten. Interestingly enough, according to Path it is VERY reasonable that I should protect my children's information: We take reasonable measures to protect your personal information in an effort to prevent loss, misuse and unauthorized access, disclosure, alteration and destruction. Please be aware, however, that despite our efforts, no security measures are perfect or impenetrable and no method of data transmission can be guaranteed against any interception or other type of misuse. Combined with: (You)...accept all risks of unauthorized access to the Registration Data and any other information you provide to us. My risk, right? > But maybe there's a specific threat in mind that I'm not thinking of? Yes, there is. And I acknowledge that you might live in a world where you have no problem allowing anyone in the world to know any detail they can illicitly sneak out of your phone about you, your family, and your friends - but most of the rest of us don't. For fuck's sake a UIKit dialog box and handler code is less than a dozen lines of code and then NONE OF THIS WOULD BE AN ISSUE. > Anyway, just thought your response was a little over the top, and more informed by emotion than reason. I'm curious, do you have a spouse or children?

baddox 15y ago
> They did not in ANY WAY have our permission, either implicitly or explicitly to collect private information about our children, who are, 3 and 4 years old. What are you talking about? Do you expect them to perform complex data analysis to figure out that certain contacts are young children, and then explicitly ask permission to share those? Or do you expect them to preemptively ask for any potential sensitive contact information? "Can we use your children's information?" "Can we use your in-laws' information?" "Can we use the address of the President's safehouse?" Etc.

gmaslov 15y ago

Having all that information (school, doctor, lawyer, pest control company, health insurer, employer, credit card company, ...) about one person or a family, together in one place, is a social-engineering / identity-theft cornucopia. Imagine if Path had a data breach resulting in this contacts database floating around the internet. Now most people's response to that kind of threat is to think "I'm just nobody important, no one would ever go to the trouble of using this information to impersonate me or otherwise make my life difficult." Probably you are underestimating one or more of: (a) your importance, meaning how much money someone stands to gain by impersonating you, (b) the gullibility/apathy of customer service reps at the companies you interact with, or possibly (c) the amount of free time and/or perversity of someone who will fuck with you just for the lulz.