3 ms·

Blaming "algorithms" is really imprecise. Any media site has to use some algorithm to pick what content to present, even if it's a chronological sort algorithm.

by bagels 4y ago

dragonwriter 4y ago
Algorithmic recommendation systems in the real world (as opposed to those theoretically possible) have common goals and features, and common problems, whether or not these common issues generalize to every algorithmic recommendation system that might be possible in the abstract.
- bagels 4y ago
  Maybe true, but it'd be good to figure out what the harms are, if they exist, and their causes instead of handwaving about algorithms. It's the difference between banning all social media and regulating it to remove specific harms.
micromacrofoot 4y ago
I blamed content recommendation algorithms specifically. They blindly amplify a lot of problems, and I'm not sure they can be fixed broadly enough to avoid this. We've seen this time and time again at this point. There are so many examples, notably youtube has a problem with accidentally radicalizing terrorists. It seems we've discovered that there's a good amount of value in looking for content rather than mindlessly consuming what's being fed to us. It's the old (tongue-in-cheek) problem of telling your family you like cows... only to later dread the fact that every gift they ever give you from then on will be cow related.
- bagels 4y ago
  Right, but showing all posts in chronological order is a "content recommendation" algorithm. Is that amplifying problems too?
  - micromacrofoot 4y ago
    This seems like pedantry with no purpose, if my boss asked me to create an algorithm that recommended content I'm certain that they would absolutely not mean a list of chronologically ordered content. Do I really need to specificity that I'm talking about algorithms that recommend content using algorithmically presumed user interests based on aggregated behavior data?
    - bagels 4y ago
      So, recommending content in any of all possible ways is harmful? Or are there some ways that are not harmful (eg filtering out things relating to suicide)? It's not pedantry without purpose. The logical conclusion to algorithms are bad is the outlawing of all social media and news sites.
      - micromacrofoot 4y ago
        then we start getting into who gets to be the proprietary arbiter of ok and not ok content, which frankly is probably even worse - china tweaking an algorithm to depress american productivity isn’t so far fetched when you consider what facebook has knowingly done to its own users

Blaming "algorithms" is really imprecise. Any media site has to use some algorithm to pick what content to present, even if it's a chronological sort algorithm.

by bagels 4y ago

Blaming "algorithms" is really imprecise. Any media site has to use some algorithm to pick what content to present, even if it's a chronological sort algorithm.

dragonwriter 4y ago

Algorithmic recommendation systems in the real world (as opposed to those theoretically possible) have common goals and features, and common problems, whether or not these common issues generalize to every algorithmic recommendation system that might be possible in the abstract.

bagels 4y ago
Maybe true, but it'd be good to figure out what the harms are, if they exist, and their causes instead of handwaving about algorithms. It's the difference between banning all social media and regulating it to remove specific harms.

micromacrofoot 4y ago

I blamed content recommendation algorithms specifically. They blindly amplify a lot of problems, and I'm not sure they can be fixed broadly enough to avoid this. We've seen this time and time again at this point. There are so many examples, notably youtube has a problem with accidentally radicalizing terrorists. It seems we've discovered that there's a good amount of value in looking for content rather than mindlessly consuming what's being fed to us. It's the old (tongue-in-cheek) problem of telling your family you like cows... only to later dread the fact that every gift they ever give you from then on will be cow related.

bagels 4y ago
Right, but showing all posts in chronological order is a "content recommendation" algorithm. Is that amplifying problems too?
- micromacrofoot 4y ago
  This seems like pedantry with no purpose, if my boss asked me to create an algorithm that recommended content I'm certain that they would absolutely not mean a list of chronologically ordered content. Do I really need to specificity that I'm talking about algorithms that recommend content using algorithmically presumed user interests based on aggregated behavior data?
  - bagels 4y ago
    So, recommending content in any of all possible ways is harmful? Or are there some ways that are not harmful (eg filtering out things relating to suicide)? It's not pedantry without purpose. The logical conclusion to algorithms are bad is the outlawing of all social media and news sites.
    - micromacrofoot 4y ago
      then we start getting into who gets to be the proprietary arbiter of ok and not ok content, which frankly is probably even worse - china tweaking an algorithm to depress american productivity isn’t so far fetched when you consider what facebook has knowingly done to its own users