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And statistically many more people would have died without AP. But you're correct in that Tesla is using the same playbook on FSD as SpaceX, launch HW (and SW)

And statistically many more people would have died without AP. But you're correct in that Tesla is using the same playbook on FSD as SpaceX, launch HW (and SW) early and iterate often, and I'd bet they'll save way more lives trying to get to autonomy like SpaceX rather than like NASA (the Waymo approach).

yellowapple 3y ago
> But you're correct in that Tesla is using the same playbook on FSD as SpaceX Except Tesla, unlike SpaceX, is willing to put passengers in its test vehicles. The SpaceX approach would be to let a bunch of FSD Teslas crash into things and each other before giving them payloads.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  Tesla is willing to put UNWILLING people in its tests (other road users, pedestrians).
  - zaroth 3y ago
    I “unwillingly” have to share the road with people who murder 40,000 people a year with their vehicles. Thankfully we are developing the technology to get these reckless maniacs out of the driver’s seat.
- martindbp 3y ago
  Putting someone in an experimental rocket is quite different from being essentially a safety driver required to pay attention and take over at any time. If you have an accident on FSD is is probably (though not always) your fault for not paying attention.
FireBeyond 3y ago
> And statistically many more people would have died without AP. Citation needed. Not Tesla's "stats" that if the people compiling them completed anything more than high school statistics are intensely misleading. Comparing a subset of miles driven on the simplest and easiest roads (because the systems can't be used and are turned off) and comparing to accident stats across ALL roads is disingenuous to the extreme, and Tesla continues to tout it. Short of pulling over, humans don't have the opportunity to say "let's disengage, because it's a bit challenging", and then not have to worry about "counting" any accidents from there forward.
- LeonB 3y ago
  Agreed. It’s like if I unit tested 0.01 percent of my code but ran the unit test 10 million times, with no failures, and claimed it was therefore “statistically” better than code that had been 100% manually tested.
- martindbp 3y ago
  No, they segment between _vehicles_ using AP vs not (still Tesla), not segmenting by miles. https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

yellowapple 3y ago

> But you're correct in that Tesla is using the same playbook on FSD as SpaceX Except Tesla, unlike SpaceX, is willing to put passengers in its test vehicles. The SpaceX approach would be to let a bunch of FSD Teslas crash into things and each other before giving them payloads.

FireBeyond 3y ago
Tesla is willing to put UNWILLING people in its tests (other road users, pedestrians).
- zaroth 3y ago
  I “unwillingly” have to share the road with people who murder 40,000 people a year with their vehicles. Thankfully we are developing the technology to get these reckless maniacs out of the driver’s seat.
martindbp 3y ago
Putting someone in an experimental rocket is quite different from being essentially a safety driver required to pay attention and take over at any time. If you have an accident on FSD is is probably (though not always) your fault for not paying attention.

FireBeyond 3y ago

> And statistically many more people would have died without AP. Citation needed. Not Tesla's "stats" that if the people compiling them completed anything more than high school statistics are intensely misleading. Comparing a subset of miles driven on the simplest and easiest roads (because the systems can't be used and are turned off) and comparing to accident stats across ALL roads is disingenuous to the extreme, and Tesla continues to tout it. Short of pulling over, humans don't have the opportunity to say "let's disengage, because it's a bit challenging", and then not have to worry about "counting" any accidents from there forward.

LeonB 3y ago
Agreed. It’s like if I unit tested 0.01 percent of my code but ran the unit test 10 million times, with no failures, and claimed it was therefore “statistically” better than code that had been 100% manually tested.
martindbp 3y ago
No, they segment between _vehicles_ using AP vs not (still Tesla), not segmenting by miles. https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport