8 ms·

I don't get it. It's Emacs installed on Linux. So what?

by bigdict 3y ago

pama 3y ago
Other than emacs, the only available command on that Linux system is mount. Not even a shell.
- bigdict 3y ago
  Then how are the commands in the code listings executed?
  - samus 3y ago
    Emacs' `dired` mode might or might not be able to produce a directory listing by itself. However, the author admits that > Of course, quite a number of syscalls are missing from emacs (not available as elisp primitives), so as it is, it would be hard enough to do EVERYTHING with emacs, but this is a starting point.
  - ertian 3y ago
    eshell (emacs' shell) has it's own versions of common shell commands, written in elisp.
    - bigdict 3y ago
      eshell only makes an appearance in step 5, the rest are regular sh/bash commands.
      - pama 3y ago
        The commands before that step are used to build the Linux system.
        bigdict 3y ago
        Oh I see, thanks.
        pama 3y ago
        You are welcome.
photonbeam 3y ago
People joke about emacs being an operating system, here emacs is the whole userland
- ihatepython 3y ago
  Wouldn't that be kind of bloated?
  - HopenHeyHi 3y ago
    This is actually smaller: https://busybox.net https://busybox.net https://re-ws.pl/2020/11/busybox-based-linux-distro-from-scratch/ https://re-ws.pl/2020/11/busybox-based-linux-distro-from-scr...
    - anthk 3y ago
      Uhm. On the 2.4 era, you could boot a Linux floppy to play Nethack on it: NeHaBoDi. https://nehabodi.sourceforge.net/ https://nehabodi.sourceforge.net/ I wonder if I could do the same with Slashem.
- JadedEngineer 3y ago
  IIRC a single-thread, slow userland that is. Emacs is the only CLI program I've ever run that would take a second or two to render when quickly switching tmux panes. I'll never get the "use emacs for everything" mantra.
  - dingosity 3y ago
    because it does what i want my computer to do. sure, VI would be faster, but i would have to use vi.
    - q7xvh97o2pDhNrh 3y ago
      vim is also pretty slow these days. Even after I did the usual toil of analyzing startup times and trimming my vimrc, its speed/responsiveness correlates inversely with the size of the text file that's open. And we're not talking about some artifically-constructed benchmark — just an extra-long ordinary text file (or log file, or code file) sitting around will be enough to make vim start to feel slow. Maybe we're all just getting old, and the dream of "one text editor for everything" is becoming one of those quaint old notions of yesteryear.
tenebrisalietum 3y ago
The Linux kernel, when it boots, will perform all its setup, then launch a program. That program has traditionally been `/sbin/init` which launches all background things that need to be running, including your `getty`'s for console login, your `sshd` for SSH login, and your `gdm`'s or what not for GUI login. Lately it's `systemd` which does the same in a less simple but more flexible/featureful manner. Here, there is literally no other process running but Emacs - it's your "login shell." This is the first step in replacing `systemd` with `emacs`, and it will take less space and be easier to use. /s
- HeckFeck 3y ago
  Finally, I get to write my init scripts in Emacs Lisp!
  - samus 3y ago
    You know, .emacs bankruptcy is a thing... https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DotEmacsBankruptcy https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DotEmacsBankruptcy
    - throwanem 3y ago
      "Build one to throw away. You will anyway."
      - samus 3y ago
        As in software engineering, the art is to build a solution that can be easily taken apart for spare parts when it becomes time to change or refactor it.
- bigdict 3y ago
  This is the only actually helpful comment, thank you.

I don't get it. It's Emacs installed on Linux. So what?

pama 3y ago

Other than emacs, the only available command on that Linux system is mount. Not even a shell.

bigdict 3y ago
Then how are the commands in the code listings executed?
- samus 3y ago
  Emacs' `dired` mode might or might not be able to produce a directory listing by itself. However, the author admits that > Of course, quite a number of syscalls are missing from emacs (not available as elisp primitives), so as it is, it would be hard enough to do EVERYTHING with emacs, but this is a starting point.
- ertian 3y ago
  eshell (emacs' shell) has it's own versions of common shell commands, written in elisp.
  - bigdict 3y ago
    eshell only makes an appearance in step 5, the rest are regular sh/bash commands.
    - pama 3y ago
      The commands before that step are used to build the Linux system.
      - bigdict 3y ago
        Oh I see, thanks.
        pama 3y ago
        You are welcome.

photonbeam 3y ago

People joke about emacs being an operating system, here emacs is the whole userland

ihatepython 3y ago
Wouldn't that be kind of bloated?
- HopenHeyHi 3y ago
  This is actually smaller: https://busybox.net https://busybox.net https://re-ws.pl/2020/11/busybox-based-linux-distro-from-scratch/ https://re-ws.pl/2020/11/busybox-based-linux-distro-from-scr...
  - anthk 3y ago
    Uhm. On the 2.4 era, you could boot a Linux floppy to play Nethack on it: NeHaBoDi. https://nehabodi.sourceforge.net/ https://nehabodi.sourceforge.net/ I wonder if I could do the same with Slashem.
JadedEngineer 3y ago
IIRC a single-thread, slow userland that is. Emacs is the only CLI program I've ever run that would take a second or two to render when quickly switching tmux panes. I'll never get the "use emacs for everything" mantra.
- dingosity 3y ago
  because it does what i want my computer to do. sure, VI would be faster, but i would have to use vi.
  - q7xvh97o2pDhNrh 3y ago
    vim is also pretty slow these days. Even after I did the usual toil of analyzing startup times and trimming my vimrc, its speed/responsiveness correlates inversely with the size of the text file that's open. And we're not talking about some artifically-constructed benchmark — just an extra-long ordinary text file (or log file, or code file) sitting around will be enough to make vim start to feel slow. Maybe we're all just getting old, and the dream of "one text editor for everything" is becoming one of those quaint old notions of yesteryear.

tenebrisalietum 3y ago

The Linux kernel, when it boots, will perform all its setup, then launch a program. That program has traditionally been `/sbin/init` which launches all background things that need to be running, including your `getty`'s for console login, your `sshd` for SSH login, and your `gdm`'s or what not for GUI login. Lately it's `systemd` which does the same in a less simple but more flexible/featureful manner. Here, there is literally no other process running but Emacs - it's your "login shell." This is the first step in replacing `systemd` with `emacs`, and it will take less space and be easier to use. /s

HeckFeck 3y ago
Finally, I get to write my init scripts in Emacs Lisp!
- samus 3y ago
  You know, .emacs bankruptcy is a thing... https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DotEmacsBankruptcy https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DotEmacsBankruptcy
  - throwanem 3y ago
    "Build one to throw away. You will anyway."
    - samus 3y ago
      As in software engineering, the art is to build a solution that can be easily taken apart for spare parts when it becomes time to change or refactor it.
bigdict 3y ago
This is the only actually helpful comment, thank you.