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China is not inherently hostile to the US. They are strengthening and have more resources to assert themselves like any country would and should, which is actua

China is not inherently hostile to the US. They are strengthening and have more resources to assert themselves like any country would and should, which is actually what the US are hostile to because they don't want competition. On the other hand, if the USSR's aim was world revolution then yes they were inherently hostile to the US.

CyanBird 4y ago
> China is not inherently hostile to the US The US does not, and will not allow a "near peer" nation to exist, ever. It will use all the tools at its disposal to avoid that situation from ever happening, that's one of its own very core tenets for national security Japan, China, Brazil, etc it does not matter if it's actually aggressive against the US or not
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  Exactly. That is the real issue. This of course also means that China not being a democracy is just convenient to make them the 'bad guys', but is not really the issue and I expect things would be exactly the same if China was a democracy.
  - tivert 4y ago
    > This of course also means that China not being a democracy is just convenient to make them the 'bad guys', but is not really the issue and I expect things would be exactly the same if China was a democracy. That's, frankly, nonsense. Things most certainly would not "be exactly the same if China was a democracy" and had political values compatible with the US.
    - DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
      The anti-Japanese hysteria of the 1980s suggests otherwise.
    - mytailorisrich 4y ago
      One the one hand the issues between the US and China are not about "political values", they are about geopolitical interests, you could make a list and check one by one. That wouldn't change if China was a democracy. On the other hand, the US are best 'friend', and have been best 'friend' with some of the least democratic countries on the planet. QED. Edit: In fact the US do not want China to become a democracy as that would actually hurt their strategy and interests against China. For instance, that would make a reunification with Taiwan more likely, which the US do not want at all.
      - tivert 4y ago
        > One the one hand the issues between the US and China are not about "political values", they are about geopolitical interests, you could make a list and check one by one. That wouldn't change if China was a democracy. On the other hand the US is best 'friend', and has been best 'friend' with some of the least democratic countries on the planet. It's not about one or the other, it's about both (i.e. China both having the power to be geopolitical rival and having incompatible political values). If one or the other would be true, the situation would be quite different. Also, the US hasn't been "best 'friend[s]' with some of the least democratic countries on the planet." It certainly has been willing to court them and look the other way in the context of a larger geopolitical effort, but once the political necessity stops, the "friendliness" gets cold. > Edit: In fact the US do not want China to become a democracy as that would actually hurt their strategy and interests against China. For instance, that would make a reunification with Taiwan more likely, which the US do not want at all. Oh come on. That's utter nonsense. The US strategy towards China was economic liberalization would bring political liberalization. Xi has demonstrated that the Americans were fools to think that, so their strategy is changing.
        adamsb6 4y ago
        Why should it matter that China and the U.S. have incompatible political values? And what does that even mean? It's not like the two systems need to interface in ways where that matters. If you're trying to negotiate a treaty it doesn't really matter how the other country's delegation got their jobs.
  - quantum_state 4y ago
    The history of the relationship with Japan in the late 80s would show us ally or not is not relevant. Japan was constantly demonized before it’s economy collapsed after the plaza accord…
himinlomax 4y ago
It's inherently and explicitly hostile to democracy. As such, it is hostile to the democratic world, which includes the US.
- myrmidon 4y ago
  That view seems extremely inconsistent to me, and not defensible at all. On one hand, you have an authoritarian one-party government (only one less party than the US :P), where you put trade sanctions on basically consumer goods, while you actually supply weapon systems to an ABSOLUTE MONARCHY in Saudi Arabia?! It seems rather clear to me that "defense of democratic values" is absolutely not the primary motivation, but basically jealousy, and China IS a potential geopolitical (future?) rival, while the corrupt, murderous kleptocracts in Arabia are a convenient fuel provider and vassal. I'm not saying US foreign policy is WRONG-- just don't lie to yourself and others about its motivations...
  - himinlomax 4y ago
    Textbook example of whataboutism. The fact that the US is not dunking on Saudi Arabia does not change the fact that the CCP is a murderous, genocidal, antidemocratic force that needs to be contained.
    - mardifoufs 4y ago
      Precedent isn't whataboutism. You cannot claim that the intentions of the US are to oppose dictatorships or whatever while also supporting saudi arabia. I mean, you can, but no amount of "whataboutism" accusations will make the claim credible. It's fine to just say that the US is doing it to counter a geopolitical rival, it requires a lot less mental gymnastics.
    - tivert 4y ago
      > The fact that the US is not dunking on Saudi Arabia does not change the fact that the CCP is a murderous, genocidal, antidemocratic force that needs to be contained. IIRC, the US did in fact "dunk" on Saudi Arabia after the Khashoggi murder, which kind of screwed them when they wanted cooperation to lower oil prices that wasn't given.
Veen 4y ago
> They are strengthening and have more resources to assert themselves, which is actually what the US are hostile to. Seems entirely rational to me.
DrThunder 4y ago
They send spies into our universities to steal research and plant communist ideas. They use TikTok as a brainwashing tool(censored in their own country), buy up US farmland, buy up buildings/property displacing US citizens, send spy balloons etc.. They are inherently hostile. It's a joke for you to say otherwise.

CyanBird 4y ago

> China is not inherently hostile to the US The US does not, and will not allow a "near peer" nation to exist, ever. It will use all the tools at its disposal to avoid that situation from ever happening, that's one of its own very core tenets for national security Japan, China, Brazil, etc it does not matter if it's actually aggressive against the US or not

mytailorisrich 4y ago
Exactly. That is the real issue. This of course also means that China not being a democracy is just convenient to make them the 'bad guys', but is not really the issue and I expect things would be exactly the same if China was a democracy.
- tivert 4y ago
  > This of course also means that China not being a democracy is just convenient to make them the 'bad guys', but is not really the issue and I expect things would be exactly the same if China was a democracy. That's, frankly, nonsense. Things most certainly would not "be exactly the same if China was a democracy" and had political values compatible with the US.
  - DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
    The anti-Japanese hysteria of the 1980s suggests otherwise.
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    One the one hand the issues between the US and China are not about "political values", they are about geopolitical interests, you could make a list and check one by one. That wouldn't change if China was a democracy. On the other hand, the US are best 'friend', and have been best 'friend' with some of the least democratic countries on the planet. QED. Edit: In fact the US do not want China to become a democracy as that would actually hurt their strategy and interests against China. For instance, that would make a reunification with Taiwan more likely, which the US do not want at all.
    - tivert 4y ago
      > One the one hand the issues between the US and China are not about "political values", they are about geopolitical interests, you could make a list and check one by one. That wouldn't change if China was a democracy. On the other hand the US is best 'friend', and has been best 'friend' with some of the least democratic countries on the planet. It's not about one or the other, it's about both (i.e. China both having the power to be geopolitical rival and having incompatible political values). If one or the other would be true, the situation would be quite different. Also, the US hasn't been "best 'friend[s]' with some of the least democratic countries on the planet." It certainly has been willing to court them and look the other way in the context of a larger geopolitical effort, but once the political necessity stops, the "friendliness" gets cold. > Edit: In fact the US do not want China to become a democracy as that would actually hurt their strategy and interests against China. For instance, that would make a reunification with Taiwan more likely, which the US do not want at all. Oh come on. That's utter nonsense. The US strategy towards China was economic liberalization would bring political liberalization. Xi has demonstrated that the Americans were fools to think that, so their strategy is changing.
      - adamsb6 4y ago
        Why should it matter that China and the U.S. have incompatible political values? And what does that even mean? It's not like the two systems need to interface in ways where that matters. If you're trying to negotiate a treaty it doesn't really matter how the other country's delegation got their jobs.
- quantum_state 4y ago
  The history of the relationship with Japan in the late 80s would show us ally or not is not relevant. Japan was constantly demonized before it’s economy collapsed after the plaza accord…

himinlomax 4y ago

It's inherently and explicitly hostile to democracy. As such, it is hostile to the democratic world, which includes the US.

myrmidon 4y ago
That view seems extremely inconsistent to me, and not defensible at all. On one hand, you have an authoritarian one-party government (only one less party than the US :P), where you put trade sanctions on basically consumer goods, while you actually supply weapon systems to an ABSOLUTE MONARCHY in Saudi Arabia?! It seems rather clear to me that "defense of democratic values" is absolutely not the primary motivation, but basically jealousy, and China IS a potential geopolitical (future?) rival, while the corrupt, murderous kleptocracts in Arabia are a convenient fuel provider and vassal. I'm not saying US foreign policy is WRONG-- just don't lie to yourself and others about its motivations...
- himinlomax 4y ago
  Textbook example of whataboutism. The fact that the US is not dunking on Saudi Arabia does not change the fact that the CCP is a murderous, genocidal, antidemocratic force that needs to be contained.
  - mardifoufs 4y ago
    Precedent isn't whataboutism. You cannot claim that the intentions of the US are to oppose dictatorships or whatever while also supporting saudi arabia. I mean, you can, but no amount of "whataboutism" accusations will make the claim credible. It's fine to just say that the US is doing it to counter a geopolitical rival, it requires a lot less mental gymnastics.
  - tivert 4y ago
    > The fact that the US is not dunking on Saudi Arabia does not change the fact that the CCP is a murderous, genocidal, antidemocratic force that needs to be contained. IIRC, the US did in fact "dunk" on Saudi Arabia after the Khashoggi murder, which kind of screwed them when they wanted cooperation to lower oil prices that wasn't given.

Veen 4y ago

> They are strengthening and have more resources to assert themselves, which is actually what the US are hostile to. Seems entirely rational to me.

DrThunder 4y ago

They send spies into our universities to steal research and plant communist ideas. They use TikTok as a brainwashing tool(censored in their own country), buy up US farmland, buy up buildings/property displacing US citizens, send spy balloons etc.. They are inherently hostile. It's a joke for you to say otherwise.