12 ms·

PTSD can be caused by literally any traumatic, life-threatening situation. How is the US supposed to "solve" that?

hellweaver666 4y ago
erm... reduce the number of traumatic, life-threatening situations by taking away the guns? Get your police force under control and stop trying to control peoples minds and bodies could be a good start?
- bheadmaster 4y ago
  I am fairly skeptical of the claim that banning guns would significantly reduce gun violence. People who commit the most gun violence crimes (criminals) will find a way to get guns regardless of the laws. I live in a country where it's very hard to get weapons legally, yet almost every drug bust in the news also contains a significant amount of confiscated firearms.
  - notch898c 4y ago
    FGC-9; everybody in Europe who wants a gun can trivially have it within a week without interacting with the criminal element or buying regulated components. That goes for modern ammunition too.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - QuercusMax 4y ago
    This past week in the US there have been several stories about people who were shot after ringing a doorbell or pulling into someone's driveway. Reducing the number of guns means that these people would not be able to enact this type of senseless violence. It would also certainly cut down on the numbers of toddlers shooting their siblings.
    - bheadmaster 4y ago
      Does the number of people getting shot by their toddler siblings or after ringing a doorbell make up a significant percentage of total gun violence? If not, then banning guns would be, in software terms, a premature optimization.
      - AlecSchueler 4y ago
        Why does it have to be a significant percentage of the total? It's still contributing to avoidable life-changing trauma for the people involved.
        augment002 4y ago
        It has to be a significant part of the total because it’s being used as an argument against introducing new treatments for PTSD.
        AlecSchueler 4y ago
        I read it to be less against pharmaceutical treatments and more in support of preventative social measures.
        augment002 4y ago
        It’s not clear that the two aren’t one and the same. MDMA treatments for PTSD are not ongoing medications. Generally they are just 3 sessions of assisted therapy producing a huge reduction in symptoms. If we can reduce the level of trauma and fear in society, we can reduce associated behaviors.
        bheadmaster 4y ago
        Because all laws and bans are tradeoffs. By banning something that doesn't have a significant effect you might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. How many lives are saved and traumas avoided through people's ability to defend themselves with guns? If that number is higher than the number of toddler accidents, gun ban would effectively cause an increase in PTSD and deaths. P.S.: just to clarify, by "significant" I mean significant in a statistical sense of not being insignificant (very close to zero, noise-level), not "majority".
  - AlecSchueler 4y ago
    The more barriers to entry the less likely someone is to buy a gun on impulse or "just to have." When they're not common on the street it's not needed to carry one for defence either. You say that drugs busts etc. outside the US will often have guns involved. Yes, criminals can still find ways to get them but ordinary people won't be bothered with this. The Netherlands for example has Europe's biggest port in Rotterdam and sees an incredible amount of drug-related smuggling. It has 3.9 guns per 100,000 people (107th in the world) while the US has 88.8 (1st in the world). The rate of murder is 73 times more than the Netherlands. Sources here: https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Netherlands/United-States/Crime https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Netherland... Look at the murder rate: https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Violent-crime/Murder-rate https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Violen... See how high the US then see how far you have to scroll down before you start seeing European countries appearing there. Sources for more control leading to reduced homicides and guns on crime scenes: 1. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-an... 2. https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/7/3/184 https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/7/3/184
    - notch898c 4y ago
      >The rate of murder is 73 times more than the Netherlands. No the absolute number is 73x, the rate is like 8x. Since you've cherry picked a European state, I will now cherry pick the state New Hampshire. Murder rate New Hampshire: 0.9 / 100k [0] Murder rate Netherlands: ~0.6 / 100k [1] Also bear in mind the expected murder chance of the average person from the Netherlands dropped into the US is not expected to be anything like the US average murder rate. The US is not nearly as demographically homogenous as the Netherlands and someone with Dutch heritage experiences much closer to Dutch murder rates in the US. [0] https://247wallst.com/state/how-the-murder-rate-in-new-hampshire-compares-to-the-rest-of-the-country/ https://247wallst.com/state/how-the-murder-rate-in-new-hamps... [1] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?locations=NL https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?location...
      - AlecSchueler 4y ago
- adamq_q 4y ago
  Someone has been spending a little too much time on Reddit
  - KyeRussell 4y ago
    Oh please. Survey 100 random non-US residents and I’ll eat my hat if the majorly don’t say that US gun policy is absurd. The typical American argument is that the US is exceptional and that the views of “these damn foreigners” don’t matter. I on the other hand seldom hear Americans actively argue that US gun policy is looked upon favourably by the worldwide community. This is exactly what you’re doing by implying that a non-US resident speaking against US gun policy holds a certain political persuasion which means that they should be dismissed. The more likely reality: they have a very typical perspective that transcends the US.
    - tayo42 4y ago
      Thinking gun policy isn't good is different then dealing with ptsd. That same survey, if you ask how many people have ptsd because of guns in America, maybe you get one,if that.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - Alupis 4y ago
      Foreigner views are readily dismissed because they are based on biased, sensationalized narrative-driven media coverage of rare events. You don't get US small-town local news in the EU, for instance, so have no reference for how many non-violent stories are aired by comparison - or how many stories cover a happy ending of a homeowner defending themselves successfully. You only get the bad stuff. Imagine if we got week-long, wall-to-wall coverage of nearly every stabbing that took place in the EU... Americans would start to believe you Europeans really need to get that knife situation under control. The reality is, by the numbers, legal gun owners are rarely involved in illegal violence while using their firearms... and there isn't a darn thing anyone can do to remove guns from illegal gun owners. Therefore, the issue, as perceived by a foreigner, is usually reduced to irrelevant talking points. It's just unproductive. Why have the gun laws not changed significantly in the past few decades? Because most Americans do not agree with the sensationalized views pushed by the click/eyeball driven media. It's that simple. So then, as a foreigner, you should consider why that may be... perhaps there is another viewpoint after all?
notch898c 4y ago
There are ways to mitigate, but not eliminate, the presence of traumatic situations. Whether that is the purview of government perhaps is another question. I suspect war and bad family environment are a massive source of trauma of US persons; the path to mitigating the former at least facially is a bit more obvious.
tel 4y ago
Honestly, facilitate a culture of supportive interconnection between people where we are less afraid to share our deepest selves, even when they are shameful and painful, and more confident that we will receive the open-hearted support we need at a time like that. So, I do understand why we turn to medication.

erm... reduce the number of traumatic, life-threatening situations by taking away the guns? Get your police force under control and stop trying to control peoples minds and bodies could be a good start?

bheadmaster 4y ago
I am fairly skeptical of the claim that banning guns would significantly reduce gun violence. People who commit the most gun violence crimes (criminals) will find a way to get guns regardless of the laws. I live in a country where it's very hard to get weapons legally, yet almost every drug bust in the news also contains a significant amount of confiscated firearms.
- notch898c 4y ago
  FGC-9; everybody in Europe who wants a gun can trivially have it within a week without interacting with the criminal element or buying regulated components. That goes for modern ammunition too.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- QuercusMax 4y ago
  This past week in the US there have been several stories about people who were shot after ringing a doorbell or pulling into someone's driveway. Reducing the number of guns means that these people would not be able to enact this type of senseless violence. It would also certainly cut down on the numbers of toddlers shooting their siblings.
  - bheadmaster 4y ago
    Does the number of people getting shot by their toddler siblings or after ringing a doorbell make up a significant percentage of total gun violence? If not, then banning guns would be, in software terms, a premature optimization.
    - AlecSchueler 4y ago
      Why does it have to be a significant percentage of the total? It's still contributing to avoidable life-changing trauma for the people involved.
      - augment002 4y ago
        It has to be a significant part of the total because it’s being used as an argument against introducing new treatments for PTSD.
        AlecSchueler 4y ago
        I read it to be less against pharmaceutical treatments and more in support of preventative social measures.
        augment002 4y ago
        It’s not clear that the two aren’t one and the same. MDMA treatments for PTSD are not ongoing medications. Generally they are just 3 sessions of assisted therapy producing a huge reduction in symptoms. If we can reduce the level of trauma and fear in society, we can reduce associated behaviors.
      - bheadmaster 4y ago
        Because all laws and bans are tradeoffs. By banning something that doesn't have a significant effect you might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. How many lives are saved and traumas avoided through people's ability to defend themselves with guns? If that number is higher than the number of toddler accidents, gun ban would effectively cause an increase in PTSD and deaths. P.S.: just to clarify, by "significant" I mean significant in a statistical sense of not being insignificant (very close to zero, noise-level), not "majority".
- AlecSchueler 4y ago
  The more barriers to entry the less likely someone is to buy a gun on impulse or "just to have." When they're not common on the street it's not needed to carry one for defence either. You say that drugs busts etc. outside the US will often have guns involved. Yes, criminals can still find ways to get them but ordinary people won't be bothered with this. The Netherlands for example has Europe's biggest port in Rotterdam and sees an incredible amount of drug-related smuggling. It has 3.9 guns per 100,000 people (107th in the world) while the US has 88.8 (1st in the world). The rate of murder is 73 times more than the Netherlands. Sources here: https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Netherlands/United-States/Crime https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Netherland... Look at the murder rate: https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Violent-crime/Murder-rate https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Violen... See how high the US then see how far you have to scroll down before you start seeing European countries appearing there. Sources for more control leading to reduced homicides and guns on crime scenes: 1. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-an... 2. https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/7/3/184 https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/7/3/184
  - notch898c 4y ago
    >The rate of murder is 73 times more than the Netherlands. No the absolute number is 73x, the rate is like 8x. Since you've cherry picked a European state, I will now cherry pick the state New Hampshire. Murder rate New Hampshire: 0.9 / 100k [0] Murder rate Netherlands: ~0.6 / 100k [1] Also bear in mind the expected murder chance of the average person from the Netherlands dropped into the US is not expected to be anything like the US average murder rate. The US is not nearly as demographically homogenous as the Netherlands and someone with Dutch heritage experiences much closer to Dutch murder rates in the US. [0] https://247wallst.com/state/how-the-murder-rate-in-new-hampshire-compares-to-the-rest-of-the-country/ https://247wallst.com/state/how-the-murder-rate-in-new-hamps... [1] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?locations=NL https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?location...
    - AlecSchueler 4y ago
adamq_q 4y ago
Someone has been spending a little too much time on Reddit
- KyeRussell 4y ago
  Oh please. Survey 100 random non-US residents and I’ll eat my hat if the majorly don’t say that US gun policy is absurd. The typical American argument is that the US is exceptional and that the views of “these damn foreigners” don’t matter. I on the other hand seldom hear Americans actively argue that US gun policy is looked upon favourably by the worldwide community. This is exactly what you’re doing by implying that a non-US resident speaking against US gun policy holds a certain political persuasion which means that they should be dismissed. The more likely reality: they have a very typical perspective that transcends the US.
  - tayo42 4y ago
    Thinking gun policy isn't good is different then dealing with ptsd. That same survey, if you ask how many people have ptsd because of guns in America, maybe you get one,if that.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Alupis 4y ago
    Foreigner views are readily dismissed because they are based on biased, sensationalized narrative-driven media coverage of rare events. You don't get US small-town local news in the EU, for instance, so have no reference for how many non-violent stories are aired by comparison - or how many stories cover a happy ending of a homeowner defending themselves successfully. You only get the bad stuff. Imagine if we got week-long, wall-to-wall coverage of nearly every stabbing that took place in the EU... Americans would start to believe you Europeans really need to get that knife situation under control. The reality is, by the numbers, legal gun owners are rarely involved in illegal violence while using their firearms... and there isn't a darn thing anyone can do to remove guns from illegal gun owners. Therefore, the issue, as perceived by a foreigner, is usually reduced to irrelevant talking points. It's just unproductive. Why have the gun laws not changed significantly in the past few decades? Because most Americans do not agree with the sensationalized views pushed by the click/eyeball driven media. It's that simple. So then, as a foreigner, you should consider why that may be... perhaps there is another viewpoint after all?

notch898c 4y ago

There are ways to mitigate, but not eliminate, the presence of traumatic situations. Whether that is the purview of government perhaps is another question. I suspect war and bad family environment are a massive source of trauma of US persons; the path to mitigating the former at least facially is a bit more obvious.

tel 4y ago

Honestly, facilitate a culture of supportive interconnection between people where we are less afraid to share our deepest selves, even when they are shameful and painful, and more confident that we will receive the open-hearted support we need at a time like that. So, I do understand why we turn to medication.