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> Which payment methods do you accept? > We accept cash, Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, Monero, bank wire, credit card, PayPal, Swish, Giropay, Eps transfer, Bancontact

> Which payment methods do you accept? > We accept cash, Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, Monero, bank wire, credit card, PayPal, Swish, Giropay, Eps transfer, Bancontact, iDEAL, and Przelewy24. > Can I really pay with cash? > You bet, and please! Stay anonymous all the way. Just put your cash and payment token (randomly generated on our website) in an envelope and send it to us. We accept the following currencies: EUR, USD, GBP, SEK, DKK, NOK, CHF, CAD, AUD, NZD. https://mullvad.net/en/pricing/ https://mullvad.net/en/pricing/

andygeorge 3y ago
ah yes, notoriously-anonymous physical mail
- generalizations 3y ago
  I mean, just don't put a return address on it, and drop it off in a random post office box.
  - chrisdhoover 3y ago
    They never caught Zodiac
  - callahad 3y ago
    All standard British stamps now have unique Data Matrix codes on them, which means you also have to source your stamps anonymously.
    - rvnx 3y ago
      Can bet 99.99% that Mullvad throws the envelope in the trash and just forgets about it. So, yes, there is a theory that someone may go in the trash in Sweden, finds the envelope, the stamp (and it has to be a british one), investigate who bought the stamp, get the assistance of the shopkeeper in UK (without raising suspicions), successfully reviews tons of security cameras footage to find who bought, etc. And still don't know which activity to link it to. A perfect waste of public resources if the NSA really does that, when all they needed to do is to purchase a VPN provider or fund Tor and claim to be no-logs VPN ;)
      - noirscape 3y ago
        Their official policy is to iirc put the envelope and the letter into a paper shredder after it's been processed fwiw.
      - e4m2 3y ago
        > Can bet 99.99% that Mullvad throws the envelope in the trash and just forgets about it. Better yet, they shred it: https://mullvad.net/en/help/no-logging-data-policy/#payments https://mullvad.net/en/help/no-logging-data-policy/#payments.
        mhitza 3y ago
        It would be better to burn those envelopes than shred them, IMO.
        SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
        Remember, the PC way to burn trash is to call it a “micro biomass power plant”.
      - michaelt 3y ago
        > So, yes, there is a theory that someone may go in the trash in Sweden, finds the envelope[...] Presumably the theory is more like [1] - that the postal service, when they scan the envelope to read the address, save the scanned image and give it to the cops. I agree that the NSA would be better off just running their own VPN services - or indeed intercepting everything on major backbones and just seeing what source IPs connect to Mullvad's servers. [1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/us-postal-service-logs-all-snail-mail-for-law-enforcement/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/us-postal-servic...
      - sangnoir 3y ago
        > Can bet 99.99% that Mullvad throws the envelope in the trash and just forgets about it. Storage is cheap - really cheap. I bet automatically capturing images of all mail during sorting and archiving that for years is not only viable, but a vital investigation/intelligence tool. One would ask Mullvad for the cash payment dates[1], and cross-reference with all mail sent to a Mullvad postal address. One city-level datapoint on where user was, cross-checked with the latest IP address, where stamps were bought[2], and you've massively trimmed the list of suspects, especially if they are behind a NAT and sharing the IP. 1. They have to keep track of payment dates, which is a side channel. 2. Where and when stamps were bought. I'm certain GCHQ can keep track of individual stamp IDs, the batches they belonged to, when they were procured by the retailer and have a reasonable guess when that specific stamp was bought by mail-sender.
    - panick21_ 3y ago
      Wait what? If you go to the post office and pay with your debit card, how exactly do they figure out who you are based on the stamp?
      - daveoc64 3y ago
        There's no evidence they're actually doing that, it's just possible that they could.
        digging 3y ago
        Possible, quite easy, and certainly of political value. But, you know, maybe they're not.
      - callahad 3y ago
        It's all metadata correlation. The UK will know with certainty that a specific stamp was used to send a specific envelope to Mullvad. (e.g., America has been logging images of every envelope that passes through its postal service for over two decades). It would also be trivial for the UK to know: - When and where that stamp was initially sold (and to whom, if buying online!) - When and where an envelope bearing that stamp entered the postal system - When and where envelopes with other stamps from the same booklet entered the postal system Add up enough bits and you can pierce anonymity.
        sgjohnson 3y ago
        And all of this is null and void if you buy your stamps from aliexpress and for the low low effort of simply driving to a different city to throw the envelope into the postbox.
        saberience 3y ago
        Not really very realistic is it though? I can only imagine this sort of thing is only done if the suspect is someone like Bin Laden, not the average Joe using a VPN for pirating Photoshop.
        jjav 3y ago
- blamarvt 3y ago
  I'm confused by your sarcasm. A one-time physical mailing can be incredibly anonymous.
  - stametseater 3y ago
    It's also incredibly easy to fuck up and accidentally hand them a DNA sample, fingerprints, handwriting sample, etc.
    - zaphar 3y ago
      Anonymity is not binary. It's a spectrum. Phyical cash mailed to a company with only an account number is significantly more anonymous than a check or credit card they bill. Perfect anonymity is probably impossible because information theory is impossible to escape. Which means you are trying to determine how far along the spectrum you can reasonably get for your particular risk profile. Comments that pretend like perfect anonymity is the goal or act like it's binary are singularly unhelpful.
- PKop 3y ago
  How is it not?

andygeorge 3y ago

ah yes, notoriously-anonymous physical mail

generalizations 3y ago
I mean, just don't put a return address on it, and drop it off in a random post office box.
- chrisdhoover 3y ago
  They never caught Zodiac
- callahad 3y ago
  All standard British stamps now have unique Data Matrix codes on them, which means you also have to source your stamps anonymously.
  - rvnx 3y ago
    Can bet 99.99% that Mullvad throws the envelope in the trash and just forgets about it. So, yes, there is a theory that someone may go in the trash in Sweden, finds the envelope, the stamp (and it has to be a british one), investigate who bought the stamp, get the assistance of the shopkeeper in UK (without raising suspicions), successfully reviews tons of security cameras footage to find who bought, etc. And still don't know which activity to link it to. A perfect waste of public resources if the NSA really does that, when all they needed to do is to purchase a VPN provider or fund Tor and claim to be no-logs VPN ;)
    - noirscape 3y ago
      Their official policy is to iirc put the envelope and the letter into a paper shredder after it's been processed fwiw.
    - e4m2 3y ago
      > Can bet 99.99% that Mullvad throws the envelope in the trash and just forgets about it. Better yet, they shred it: https://mullvad.net/en/help/no-logging-data-policy/#payments https://mullvad.net/en/help/no-logging-data-policy/#payments.
      - mhitza 3y ago
        It would be better to burn those envelopes than shred them, IMO.
        SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
        Remember, the PC way to burn trash is to call it a “micro biomass power plant”.
    - michaelt 3y ago
      > So, yes, there is a theory that someone may go in the trash in Sweden, finds the envelope[...] Presumably the theory is more like [1] - that the postal service, when they scan the envelope to read the address, save the scanned image and give it to the cops. I agree that the NSA would be better off just running their own VPN services - or indeed intercepting everything on major backbones and just seeing what source IPs connect to Mullvad's servers. [1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/us-postal-service-logs-all-snail-mail-for-law-enforcement/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/us-postal-servic...
    - sangnoir 3y ago
      > Can bet 99.99% that Mullvad throws the envelope in the trash and just forgets about it. Storage is cheap - really cheap. I bet automatically capturing images of all mail during sorting and archiving that for years is not only viable, but a vital investigation/intelligence tool. One would ask Mullvad for the cash payment dates[1], and cross-reference with all mail sent to a Mullvad postal address. One city-level datapoint on where user was, cross-checked with the latest IP address, where stamps were bought[2], and you've massively trimmed the list of suspects, especially if they are behind a NAT and sharing the IP. 1. They have to keep track of payment dates, which is a side channel. 2. Where and when stamps were bought. I'm certain GCHQ can keep track of individual stamp IDs, the batches they belonged to, when they were procured by the retailer and have a reasonable guess when that specific stamp was bought by mail-sender.
  - panick21_ 3y ago
    Wait what? If you go to the post office and pay with your debit card, how exactly do they figure out who you are based on the stamp?
    - daveoc64 3y ago
      There's no evidence they're actually doing that, it's just possible that they could.
      - digging 3y ago
        Possible, quite easy, and certainly of political value. But, you know, maybe they're not.
    - callahad 3y ago
      It's all metadata correlation. The UK will know with certainty that a specific stamp was used to send a specific envelope to Mullvad. (e.g., America has been logging images of every envelope that passes through its postal service for over two decades). It would also be trivial for the UK to know: - When and where that stamp was initially sold (and to whom, if buying online!) - When and where an envelope bearing that stamp entered the postal system - When and where envelopes with other stamps from the same booklet entered the postal system Add up enough bits and you can pierce anonymity.
      - sgjohnson 3y ago
        And all of this is null and void if you buy your stamps from aliexpress and for the low low effort of simply driving to a different city to throw the envelope into the postbox.
      - saberience 3y ago
        Not really very realistic is it though? I can only imagine this sort of thing is only done if the suspect is someone like Bin Laden, not the average Joe using a VPN for pirating Photoshop.
      - jjav 3y ago
blamarvt 3y ago
I'm confused by your sarcasm. A one-time physical mailing can be incredibly anonymous.
- stametseater 3y ago
  It's also incredibly easy to fuck up and accidentally hand them a DNA sample, fingerprints, handwriting sample, etc.
  - zaphar 3y ago
    Anonymity is not binary. It's a spectrum. Phyical cash mailed to a company with only an account number is significantly more anonymous than a check or credit card they bill. Perfect anonymity is probably impossible because information theory is impossible to escape. Which means you are trying to determine how far along the spectrum you can reasonably get for your particular risk profile. Comments that pretend like perfect anonymity is the goal or act like it's binary are singularly unhelpful.
PKop 3y ago
How is it not?