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> Who do you think Shell are selling all this oil to? Commercial and industrial entities. Retail for cars is little by comparison. See the 15 ships vs all the

> Who do you think Shell are selling all this oil to? Commercial and industrial entities. Retail for cars is little by comparison. See the 15 ships vs all the cars article. > Given the forum we are conversing in, I'm pretty certain we're all in the world's wealthiest 5%.. What can I even say here? Why are you speaking for me? > So basically, "don't make me do anything I don't want to do" ? You don't need to maliciously "summarize" my arguments. I have already done so in the first sentence of the paragraph. And that was "Don't shit on the environment." > I think you're misunderstanding the articles... And I think you are trying really hard to misunderstand what I'm saying just for internet points.

namdnay 3y ago
> Commercial and industrial entities. And who are they selling to? At the end of the day, it's feeding us, the consumers > What can I even say here? Why are you speaking for me? An annual home/family income of more than 50k USD before tax puts you in this 5%. I think this covers the vast majority of people here
- trabant00 3y ago
  > And who are they selling to? At the end of the day, it's feeding us, the consumers We where talking about personal ICE cars. Now you're switching it up to try to win the argument. I'm done with you as you are not replying in good faith. > An annual home/family income of more than 50k USD before tax puts you in this 5%. I think this covers the vast majority of people here And I still think you should only speak for yourself as regards to income. You pompous self righteous ignorant american.
AlecSchueler 3y ago
> Commercial and industrial entities That's kind of obfuscatory though. It's kinda like arguing that supermarkets are the ones responsible for bio-industry because they're the ones who buy so much meat from the farmers, while ignoring the demand created by their customers.
- trabant00 3y ago
  No it's not. We where talking about the ICE engines for the average Joe car which are under media and regulatory attack. The 15 ships that pollute as much as all the cars are not under scrutiny. They could make them less polluting, but that would cut into the profits. The argument is no way similar to meat and supermarkets, because no consumer demands that his goods be shipped with two stroke diesel engines that burn what is basically crude oil.
  - AlecSchueler 3y ago
    I see what you're saying. To me the conversation was more about "should individual consumers worry about their carbon impact while there are much bigger idustrial polluters?" As I understood it regulating the ships is made difficult because they stay in international waters and off-load their cargoes onto small ships for the last leg of the deliveries. The companies maximise their profits because that's what companies do. If you have ideas about how to regulate against their pollution I'd (genuinely) be very glad to hear them. With the meat thing, I basically look at purchasing as voting. If you buy goods shipped from around the world and you understand what that means from a pollution perspective then you're effectively voting for it to continue happening. Personally I try to consider these things when making decisions. Not everyone is in the position to have the time or opportunity to look for alternatives and that's fine, but personally I find having that luxury and not taking it to be morally questionable.
    - myshpa 3y ago
      > If you have ideas about how to regulate against their pollution I'd (genuinely) be very glad to hear them Trains. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bering_Strait_crossing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bering_Strait_crossing > If you buy goods shipped from around the world and you understand what that means from a pollution perspective "You want to reduce the carbon footprint of your food? Focus on what you eat, not whether your food is local ... Transport is a small contributor to emissions. For most food products, it accounts for less than 10%, and it’s much smaller for the largest GHG emitters. In beef from beef herds, it’s 0.5%. Very little food is air-freighted; it accounts for only 0.16% of food miles. Many of the foods people assume to come by air are actually transported by boat – avocados and almonds are prime examples. Shipping one kilogram of avocados from Mexico to the United Kingdom ... is only around 8% of avocados’ total footprint. Even when shipped at great distances, its emissions are much less than locally-produced animal products." https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local

namdnay 3y ago

> Commercial and industrial entities. And who are they selling to? At the end of the day, it's feeding us, the consumers > What can I even say here? Why are you speaking for me? An annual home/family income of more than 50k USD before tax puts you in this 5%. I think this covers the vast majority of people here

trabant00 3y ago
> And who are they selling to? At the end of the day, it's feeding us, the consumers We where talking about personal ICE cars. Now you're switching it up to try to win the argument. I'm done with you as you are not replying in good faith. > An annual home/family income of more than 50k USD before tax puts you in this 5%. I think this covers the vast majority of people here And I still think you should only speak for yourself as regards to income. You pompous self righteous ignorant american.

AlecSchueler 3y ago

> Commercial and industrial entities That's kind of obfuscatory though. It's kinda like arguing that supermarkets are the ones responsible for bio-industry because they're the ones who buy so much meat from the farmers, while ignoring the demand created by their customers.

trabant00 3y ago
No it's not. We where talking about the ICE engines for the average Joe car which are under media and regulatory attack. The 15 ships that pollute as much as all the cars are not under scrutiny. They could make them less polluting, but that would cut into the profits. The argument is no way similar to meat and supermarkets, because no consumer demands that his goods be shipped with two stroke diesel engines that burn what is basically crude oil.
- AlecSchueler 3y ago
  I see what you're saying. To me the conversation was more about "should individual consumers worry about their carbon impact while there are much bigger idustrial polluters?" As I understood it regulating the ships is made difficult because they stay in international waters and off-load their cargoes onto small ships for the last leg of the deliveries. The companies maximise their profits because that's what companies do. If you have ideas about how to regulate against their pollution I'd (genuinely) be very glad to hear them. With the meat thing, I basically look at purchasing as voting. If you buy goods shipped from around the world and you understand what that means from a pollution perspective then you're effectively voting for it to continue happening. Personally I try to consider these things when making decisions. Not everyone is in the position to have the time or opportunity to look for alternatives and that's fine, but personally I find having that luxury and not taking it to be morally questionable.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    > If you have ideas about how to regulate against their pollution I'd (genuinely) be very glad to hear them Trains. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bering_Strait_crossing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bering_Strait_crossing > If you buy goods shipped from around the world and you understand what that means from a pollution perspective "You want to reduce the carbon footprint of your food? Focus on what you eat, not whether your food is local ... Transport is a small contributor to emissions. For most food products, it accounts for less than 10%, and it’s much smaller for the largest GHG emitters. In beef from beef herds, it’s 0.5%. Very little food is air-freighted; it accounts for only 0.16% of food miles. Many of the foods people assume to come by air are actually transported by boat – avocados and almonds are prime examples. Shipping one kilogram of avocados from Mexico to the United Kingdom ... is only around 8% of avocados’ total footprint. Even when shipped at great distances, its emissions are much less than locally-produced animal products." https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local