4 ms·
>As a US based developer, would I have the option to ban people in the EU from using my software? It's the only way I would be able to keep distributing. ?!?!?
by xoa 4y ago
>As a US based developer, would I have the option to ban people in the EU from using my software? It's the only way I would be able to keep distributing.
?!?!?!?!??! No, just tell the EU to go fuck itself. If like me you're in the US they don't have any jurisdiction! It's not our problem. How the hell did the entire concept of sovereignty apparently evaporate on HN? The EU is absolutely no different than China, Russia, Iran, or North Korea in this regard. They can pass whatever domestic laws they want. They can also setup a Great Firewall and block off countries they don't like. But if you don't live there and you have no operating presence there then it doesn't matter if their people come and access our sites and services, anymore than if they flew over to the US and access it from here. It is Not Our Problem. Software is protected by the First Amendment. I don't respect blasphemy laws or any of that other crap either.
>edit 3: ok that last bit is over the top. i understand i have to follow international law... my American-ism is kicking in.
That's not "Americanism" nor over the top in the slightest bit. There is no such thing as "international law" in any way that's the same as domestic law. Countries can agree upon treaties, which they then translate into domestic laws for their own citizens same as any other law. But there is no World Government, and what the EU passes matters only to the extent you wish to have a physical presence in EU jurisdiction or the US agrees to the same thing and passes domestic law to that effect. Big Tech players and such obviously fall into the first bucket, at their scale and for what they offer physical presence is vital, which naturally puts them in the jurisdiction of wherever they are up to the limit of being willing to leave.
For those of us who are just single devs putting out software, free or commercial, if someone from the EU wants to go after us for liability they'd have to do so in US court under US law.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- layer8 4y ago> If like me you're in the US they don't have any jurisdiction! They do if you do business in Europe, for example by serving users in Europe.
- w4ffl35 4y agothis is where my confusion is: i am writing software and adding to github, compiling on github and pushing to itch.io. lots of people from EU have downloaded my software and even donated. am i serving customers in the EU? IMO no, but i could see how others would argue that I am. edit: i think itch.io and github are serving customers in the EU, not me.
- xoa 4y ago>They do if you do business in Europe, for example by serving users in Europe. Nope, that's not doing business in Europe. If EU users come to my American-located site (or git repo or wherever) and grab my code that's theirs and the EU's business. Again, same as if some Iranian came and posted a comment deemed insulting to muhammad under their law or a Chinese citizen with a picture of Xinnie the Pooh genociding Uyghurs or used my software in some way to do the same or evade local censorship or something. Chinese or Iranian or EU government are then free to tell me to change my ways or give them info on the user or block them or whatever. Or demand I pay fines and go to jail. And I'm free to tell them to kiss my red white and blue ass. If it's against the law in the US too, including treaties we've signed with other countries binding us as a matter of domestic law as well, then absolutely of course Americans have to respect that. Or again, if somebody wanted to maintain assets and presence in another country. Otherwise explain to me the exact mechanics by which you expect one of the courts from the other 194 countries in the world to enforce their own laws in the US contrary to US law? Also, obviously if I make use of a large site that has physical presence in the EU, then the EU will have some level of sway over that site in turn, and could demand they block me to all EU citizens, or for that matter demand that they ban me and anyone else and enforce EU law worldwide. And then they would have to decide if it was worth staying under EU jurisdiction or not, and the US Government would have to decide whether to retaliate and demand EU companies enforce US law in the EU or be banned from the US market and it'd spiral off into far higher office and diplomacy. But none of that is the problem of those of us on the ground floor beyond convenience and our dependence (or not) on multinational mega entities. Can always fallback to our own local stuff.