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I wonder what triggered this - legislation? Their payment processor? The ad network they get their revenue from? In my experience, this kind of change happens

I wonder what triggered this - legislation? Their payment processor? The ad network they get their revenue from? In my experience, this kind of change happens much more often for money reasons than for moral reasons. I think Tumblr's TOS change happened because their credit card processor became uncomfortable at them being essentially "in the porn business" - and indeed, seeing how much smaller Tumblr's business was post-change, the card processor was technically right.

w4ffl35 4y ago
probably AI porn fears
- AlecSchueler 4y ago
  And more and more legislation against revenge porn. There have been so many subreddits dedicated to non consensual intimate media and most of their content was hosted on imgur. People are framing this as an attack against sex but in reality our automated moderation tools can't know if consent sas given by the models and human moderation is too costly. The rise of AI porn is giving more power than ever to people who wish to hurt women. There are still plenty of places to share NSFW content but they're moving towards models of consent verification like PornHub.
  - w4ffl35 4y ago
    > AI porn is giving more power than ever to people who wish to hurt women How do fake nudes hurt women? edit: i'm guessing you mean using someone's likeness without their consent to create porn, something that was easily doable prior to AI. AI "gives those people more power" as you put it, but it also gives defenders more power. AI safetyism (aka pantywaistism) is a joke.
    - AlecSchueler 4y ago
      Yes, I have already seen women be victims of these false-likeness AI pornographies. I know that HN sits in a safe bubble and will gloss over the dangers because it's "not real" but the damage done is real. The effects on the victims are real and have real world consequences for these people which can potentially be fatal. I know that technology is often a double edged sword. I can be in favour of auto-transport, for example, while still supporting research into seat belts and crumple zones. > AI safetyism (aka pantywaistism) is a joke. I don't know what these are, sorry. I feel like I'm making a valid point based on my observations and you're attempting to discredit that by associating my view with more extreme groups.
      - w4ffl35 4y ago
        you're echoing congress woman eshoo.
        AlecSchueler 4y ago
        Again, I don't know who that is, sorry. I'm not in the US so I don't follow American politics so closely and I'm unsure what point you're making or how to respond.
        w4ffl35 4y ago
        I'll be more clear: eshoo's argument is that there are photos of Asian females being beaten generated by Stable Diffusion posted to 4chan and thus the NSA needs to step in and do something to stop Stable Diffusion. These arguments are ridiculous. These are fake images generated with an algorithm. Real images are more concerning because it means real people were harmed in the real world. Fake images means someone's ego was hurt and they have a legal battle to attend to if they want the fake images of themselves removed from the internet. Those same fake images could be generated with Photoshop. AI just makes it easier. Banning AI doesn't solve the problem. The time and resources spent debating and attempting to ban AI should be diverted to real issues. The fear surrounding AI is misplaced and makes people who embrace the fear look weak and foolish. The people sowing the fear have the most to gain from public compliance. Additionally, you implied that I am exhibiting some sort of Hacker News group think, I am not. But perhaps this site draws a certain type of personality. I am against government regulation and intervention, and I am VERY against the nanny-statism influence of the UK and others that is being pushed on the US.
        AlecSchueler 4y ago
        > These arguments are ridiculous. These arguments aren't mine. You're attempting to colour my words by associating them with someone else's who they apparently "sound like." > Real images are more concerning because it means real people were harmed in the real world. Yes, they are. I hope real images of abuse are treated with the gravity they deserve. > Those same fake images could be generated with Photoshop. AI just makes it easier. Yes, many of the things we achieve with me technology could previously have been achieved with more effort using earlier technologies. Airplanes are still world changing, though, even thick we already had cars. > Banning AI doesn't solve the problem. This is a strawman. > Additionally, you implied that I am exhibiting some sort of Hacker News group think, I am not. I simply meant that HN is a predominantly male space and that men are less likely to be victims of faked pornography, so the discussion here will inevitably take a more detached and theoretical point of view on these matters than if potential victims were more included in the conversion.
    - Auracle 4y ago
      With Stable Diffusion + controlnet, it is pretty damned easy to make nudes of people - and if they're wearing something tight-fitted, it's probably quite accurate as far as overall body shape. Of course, you can make a model of someone with ~30 images and have them wearing and doing whatever you want. On the flip side, that means if your real nudes are leaked you have plausible deniability. What might have been a career ending incident can now be dismissed as someone generating those images instead.
      - w4ffl35 4y ago
        > On the flip side, that means if your real nudes are leaked you have plausible deniability indeed, that's the way i have seen it as well. political blackmail can become a thing of the past. makes no sense to ban or restrict.
saurik 4y ago
> I think Tumblr's TOS change happened because... https://www.salon.com/2019/08/16/did-banning-porn-make-tumblr-worthless/ https://www.salon.com/2019/08/16/did-banning-porn-make-tumbl... > Porn was banned from Tumblr soon after the social network was removed from Apple’s App Store. Child pornography was found on the site, one consequence of the site’s relaxed content moderation approach. Instead of banning specific sites with child pornography, all not-safe-for-work content was banned.
- Auracle 4y ago
  I don’t see how someone could have that many uploads a day without child porn slipping through - especially when child porn is defined as porn of anyone under the age of 18.

w4ffl35 4y ago

probably AI porn fears

AlecSchueler 4y ago
And more and more legislation against revenge porn. There have been so many subreddits dedicated to non consensual intimate media and most of their content was hosted on imgur. People are framing this as an attack against sex but in reality our automated moderation tools can't know if consent sas given by the models and human moderation is too costly. The rise of AI porn is giving more power than ever to people who wish to hurt women. There are still plenty of places to share NSFW content but they're moving towards models of consent verification like PornHub.
- w4ffl35 4y ago
  > AI porn is giving more power than ever to people who wish to hurt women How do fake nudes hurt women? edit: i'm guessing you mean using someone's likeness without their consent to create porn, something that was easily doable prior to AI. AI "gives those people more power" as you put it, but it also gives defenders more power. AI safetyism (aka pantywaistism) is a joke.
  - AlecSchueler 4y ago
    Yes, I have already seen women be victims of these false-likeness AI pornographies. I know that HN sits in a safe bubble and will gloss over the dangers because it's "not real" but the damage done is real. The effects on the victims are real and have real world consequences for these people which can potentially be fatal. I know that technology is often a double edged sword. I can be in favour of auto-transport, for example, while still supporting research into seat belts and crumple zones. > AI safetyism (aka pantywaistism) is a joke. I don't know what these are, sorry. I feel like I'm making a valid point based on my observations and you're attempting to discredit that by associating my view with more extreme groups.
    - w4ffl35 4y ago
      you're echoing congress woman eshoo.
      - AlecSchueler 4y ago
        Again, I don't know who that is, sorry. I'm not in the US so I don't follow American politics so closely and I'm unsure what point you're making or how to respond.
        w4ffl35 4y ago
        I'll be more clear: eshoo's argument is that there are photos of Asian females being beaten generated by Stable Diffusion posted to 4chan and thus the NSA needs to step in and do something to stop Stable Diffusion. These arguments are ridiculous. These are fake images generated with an algorithm. Real images are more concerning because it means real people were harmed in the real world. Fake images means someone's ego was hurt and they have a legal battle to attend to if they want the fake images of themselves removed from the internet. Those same fake images could be generated with Photoshop. AI just makes it easier. Banning AI doesn't solve the problem. The time and resources spent debating and attempting to ban AI should be diverted to real issues. The fear surrounding AI is misplaced and makes people who embrace the fear look weak and foolish. The people sowing the fear have the most to gain from public compliance. Additionally, you implied that I am exhibiting some sort of Hacker News group think, I am not. But perhaps this site draws a certain type of personality. I am against government regulation and intervention, and I am VERY against the nanny-statism influence of the UK and others that is being pushed on the US.
        AlecSchueler 4y ago
        > These arguments are ridiculous. These arguments aren't mine. You're attempting to colour my words by associating them with someone else's who they apparently "sound like." > Real images are more concerning because it means real people were harmed in the real world. Yes, they are. I hope real images of abuse are treated with the gravity they deserve. > Those same fake images could be generated with Photoshop. AI just makes it easier. Yes, many of the things we achieve with me technology could previously have been achieved with more effort using earlier technologies. Airplanes are still world changing, though, even thick we already had cars. > Banning AI doesn't solve the problem. This is a strawman. > Additionally, you implied that I am exhibiting some sort of Hacker News group think, I am not. I simply meant that HN is a predominantly male space and that men are less likely to be victims of faked pornography, so the discussion here will inevitably take a more detached and theoretical point of view on these matters than if potential victims were more included in the conversion.
  - Auracle 4y ago
    With Stable Diffusion + controlnet, it is pretty damned easy to make nudes of people - and if they're wearing something tight-fitted, it's probably quite accurate as far as overall body shape. Of course, you can make a model of someone with ~30 images and have them wearing and doing whatever you want. On the flip side, that means if your real nudes are leaked you have plausible deniability. What might have been a career ending incident can now be dismissed as someone generating those images instead.
    - w4ffl35 4y ago
      > On the flip side, that means if your real nudes are leaked you have plausible deniability indeed, that's the way i have seen it as well. political blackmail can become a thing of the past. makes no sense to ban or restrict.

saurik 4y ago

> I think Tumblr's TOS change happened because... https://www.salon.com/2019/08/16/did-banning-porn-make-tumblr-worthless/ https://www.salon.com/2019/08/16/did-banning-porn-make-tumbl... > Porn was banned from Tumblr soon after the social network was removed from Apple’s App Store. Child pornography was found on the site, one consequence of the site’s relaxed content moderation approach. Instead of banning specific sites with child pornography, all not-safe-for-work content was banned.

Auracle 4y ago
I don’t see how someone could have that many uploads a day without child porn slipping through - especially when child porn is defined as porn of anyone under the age of 18.