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I'm really starting to resent the dumping of responsibility on the average guy. We can't even enjoy a steak sandwich any more without having guilt shoved down o

I'm really starting to resent the dumping of responsibility on the average guy. We can't even enjoy a steak sandwich any more without having guilt shoved down our throat even though we are responsible for minimal environmental impact. https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10/100-fossil-fuel-companies-investors-responsible-71-global-emissions-cdp-study-climate-change https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10... https://www.industrytap.com/worlds-15-biggest-ships-create-more-pollution-than-all-the-cars-in-the-world https://www.industrytap.com/worlds-15-biggest-ships-create-m... https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-56723560 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-56723560 The media keeps picking on my stakes, ICE engines, decently warm home, etc, because they get paid to divert attention. And then the naive do gooders pick it up and hammer their fellow working class citizens. For what? If everybody on my level makes his life 50% less comfortable we won't even make a single digit percent dent on the environment impact. Don't shit on the environment. Don't leave the lights and heating on for no reason, don't throw trash in nature, don't get a 7 liter engine for in town driving and so on. Those are the only kind of things an average guy can realistically do. And most of it he can't afford to do anyway. But when you come after my steak sandwich this is where I draw the line.

namdnay 3y ago
I think you're misunderstanding the articles... > https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10/100-fossil-fuel-companies-investors-responsible-71-global-emissions-cdp-study-climate-change https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10... you're saying that the big polluters are Shell and Aramco, and then complaining that we're asking you to stop using ICE engines? Who do you think Shell are selling all this oil to? > https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-56723560 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-56723560 "The wealthiest 5% alone – the so-called “polluter elite” - contributed 37% of emissions growth between 1990 and 2015." Given the forum we are conversing in, I'm pretty certain we're all in the world's wealthiest 5%.. > Don't shit on the environment. Don't leave the lights and heating on for no reason, don't throw trash in nature, don't get a 7 liter engine for in town driving and so on. Those are the only kind of things an average guy can realistically do. And most of it he can't afford to do anyway. But when you come after my steak sandwich this is where I draw the line. So basically, "don't make me do anything I don't want to do" ?
- trabant00 3y ago
  > Who do you think Shell are selling all this oil to? Commercial and industrial entities. Retail for cars is little by comparison. See the 15 ships vs all the cars article. > Given the forum we are conversing in, I'm pretty certain we're all in the world's wealthiest 5%.. What can I even say here? Why are you speaking for me? > So basically, "don't make me do anything I don't want to do" ? You don't need to maliciously "summarize" my arguments. I have already done so in the first sentence of the paragraph. And that was "Don't shit on the environment." > I think you're misunderstanding the articles... And I think you are trying really hard to misunderstand what I'm saying just for internet points.
  - namdnay 3y ago
    > Commercial and industrial entities. And who are they selling to? At the end of the day, it's feeding us, the consumers > What can I even say here? Why are you speaking for me? An annual home/family income of more than 50k USD before tax puts you in this 5%. I think this covers the vast majority of people here
    - trabant00 3y ago
      > And who are they selling to? At the end of the day, it's feeding us, the consumers We where talking about personal ICE cars. Now you're switching it up to try to win the argument. I'm done with you as you are not replying in good faith. > An annual home/family income of more than 50k USD before tax puts you in this 5%. I think this covers the vast majority of people here And I still think you should only speak for yourself as regards to income. You pompous self righteous ignorant american.
  - AlecSchueler 3y ago
    > Commercial and industrial entities That's kind of obfuscatory though. It's kinda like arguing that supermarkets are the ones responsible for bio-industry because they're the ones who buy so much meat from the farmers, while ignoring the demand created by their customers.
HDThoreaun 3y ago
Who do you think is responsible for the amount of meat that people eat if not the people eating the meat?
tasoga 3y ago
One of the funny things about growing up a vegetarian (in America or maybe more particularly where I'm from) is to be looked down on, seen as immature or as if you are denying the realities of the world, but the people who would say the least science backed to just fucked up shit to you are the people like this who have an absolute hissy fit about talking about the general consequences of a having a exceedingly high caloric intake, composed of a lot of animal products which create more stress on the only livable planet we have access to. The American diet is a joke and we should talk about it since it's an increasingly important topic whether you personally get worked up about it or not. Anyway, feels good now that I'm older and there is more and more science backed evidence to show you can be healthy without animal based products and how much better it is for the environment, but I wish I could go back and tell that lonely 10 year old kid being mocked by other kids and adults that he made the right choice. ...and good on you "do-gooders" who have the strength to think beyond yourself and change your habits even if it isn't convenient to you. You make the world go round and better to be in
jjulius 3y ago
Dude, just go out and eat that steak sandwich if you want. Make your choice and be content with it. Do you have experience with actual, in-person interactions with people where they tried to make you feel guilty for eating one, or are you letting some random comment by some random person on the internet ruffle your feathers? Yeesh.
throw0101b 3y ago
> We can't even enjoy a steak sandwich any more without having guilt shoved down our throat even though we are responsible for minimal environmental impact. You can enjoy it all you want if you take responsibility for its consequences. Right now the externalities of a lot of our actions are not taken into account for many things, and so the people who suffer the consequences are not the ones that are enjoying the benefits.
- snapcaster 3y ago
  Actually, i can enjoy it without taking responsibility and you literally can't stop me
  - AlecSchueler 3y ago
    No but we can judge you for it, and you can't stop us.
noja 3y ago
How many steak sandwiches are you eating?!
- trabant00 3y ago
  One, and apparently that is one too many for some people.
edu 3y ago
But this carbon fossil producers and this huge ships are producing/carrying stuff for the average person. So yeah, the average guy needs to change and the big corps need to change too.
rvense 3y ago
I remember talking to my old boss, who was something of an "old money" type, about summer holiday plans, some time in the middle of last decade. My then-girlfriend and I were going by bus to Berlin, 600km or so, to hang out, see Archaeopteryx and eat cheap food. He was going skiing in Japan - half a world away - and staying in some futuristic hotel, going by helicopter every day to and from the "really good slopes". I was a strict vegetarian at the time, but I wonder how many döners a helicopter ride is.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

namdnay 3y ago

I think you're misunderstanding the articles... > https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10/100-fossil-fuel-companies-investors-responsible-71-global-emissions-cdp-study-climate-change https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10... you're saying that the big polluters are Shell and Aramco, and then complaining that we're asking you to stop using ICE engines? Who do you think Shell are selling all this oil to? > https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-56723560 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-56723560 "The wealthiest 5% alone – the so-called “polluter elite” - contributed 37% of emissions growth between 1990 and 2015." Given the forum we are conversing in, I'm pretty certain we're all in the world's wealthiest 5%.. > Don't shit on the environment. Don't leave the lights and heating on for no reason, don't throw trash in nature, don't get a 7 liter engine for in town driving and so on. Those are the only kind of things an average guy can realistically do. And most of it he can't afford to do anyway. But when you come after my steak sandwich this is where I draw the line. So basically, "don't make me do anything I don't want to do" ?

trabant00 3y ago
> Who do you think Shell are selling all this oil to? Commercial and industrial entities. Retail for cars is little by comparison. See the 15 ships vs all the cars article. > Given the forum we are conversing in, I'm pretty certain we're all in the world's wealthiest 5%.. What can I even say here? Why are you speaking for me? > So basically, "don't make me do anything I don't want to do" ? You don't need to maliciously "summarize" my arguments. I have already done so in the first sentence of the paragraph. And that was "Don't shit on the environment." > I think you're misunderstanding the articles... And I think you are trying really hard to misunderstand what I'm saying just for internet points.
- namdnay 3y ago
  > Commercial and industrial entities. And who are they selling to? At the end of the day, it's feeding us, the consumers > What can I even say here? Why are you speaking for me? An annual home/family income of more than 50k USD before tax puts you in this 5%. I think this covers the vast majority of people here
  - trabant00 3y ago
    > And who are they selling to? At the end of the day, it's feeding us, the consumers We where talking about personal ICE cars. Now you're switching it up to try to win the argument. I'm done with you as you are not replying in good faith. > An annual home/family income of more than 50k USD before tax puts you in this 5%. I think this covers the vast majority of people here And I still think you should only speak for yourself as regards to income. You pompous self righteous ignorant american.
- AlecSchueler 3y ago
  > Commercial and industrial entities That's kind of obfuscatory though. It's kinda like arguing that supermarkets are the ones responsible for bio-industry because they're the ones who buy so much meat from the farmers, while ignoring the demand created by their customers.

HDThoreaun 3y ago

Who do you think is responsible for the amount of meat that people eat if not the people eating the meat?

tasoga 3y ago

One of the funny things about growing up a vegetarian (in America or maybe more particularly where I'm from) is to be looked down on, seen as immature or as if you are denying the realities of the world, but the people who would say the least science backed to just fucked up shit to you are the people like this who have an absolute hissy fit about talking about the general consequences of a having a exceedingly high caloric intake, composed of a lot of animal products which create more stress on the only livable planet we have access to. The American diet is a joke and we should talk about it since it's an increasingly important topic whether you personally get worked up about it or not. Anyway, feels good now that I'm older and there is more and more science backed evidence to show you can be healthy without animal based products and how much better it is for the environment, but I wish I could go back and tell that lonely 10 year old kid being mocked by other kids and adults that he made the right choice. ...and good on you "do-gooders" who have the strength to think beyond yourself and change your habits even if it isn't convenient to you. You make the world go round and better to be in

jjulius 3y ago

Dude, just go out and eat that steak sandwich if you want. Make your choice and be content with it. Do you have experience with actual, in-person interactions with people where they tried to make you feel guilty for eating one, or are you letting some random comment by some random person on the internet ruffle your feathers? Yeesh.

throw0101b 3y ago

> We can't even enjoy a steak sandwich any more without having guilt shoved down our throat even though we are responsible for minimal environmental impact. You can enjoy it all you want if you take responsibility for its consequences. Right now the externalities of a lot of our actions are not taken into account for many things, and so the people who suffer the consequences are not the ones that are enjoying the benefits.

snapcaster 3y ago
Actually, i can enjoy it without taking responsibility and you literally can't stop me
- AlecSchueler 3y ago
  No but we can judge you for it, and you can't stop us.

noja 3y ago

How many steak sandwiches are you eating?!

trabant00 3y ago
One, and apparently that is one too many for some people.

edu 3y ago

But this carbon fossil producers and this huge ships are producing/carrying stuff for the average person. So yeah, the average guy needs to change and the big corps need to change too.

rvense 3y ago

I remember talking to my old boss, who was something of an "old money" type, about summer holiday plans, some time in the middle of last decade. My then-girlfriend and I were going by bus to Berlin, 600km or so, to hang out, see Archaeopteryx and eat cheap food. He was going skiing in Japan - half a world away - and staying in some futuristic hotel, going by helicopter every day to and from the "really good slopes". I was a strict vegetarian at the time, but I wonder how many döners a helicopter ride is.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]