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While I still support Path, the best PR move they could do right now is to pro-actively wipe all non-members' contact info from their servers, and then fast-tra

While I still support Path, the best PR move they could do right now is to pro-actively wipe all non-members' contact info from their servers, and then fast-track approval of the new "opt-in" version to the App Store, so that users can re-upload. Played right, this episode could actually give them free publicity. Companies like Facebook and Zynga have been embroiled in far worse controversies, and they've all blown over.

AJ007 15y ago
That's not a PR move, that's what you do while crossing your fingers that state attorney generals and the FTC doesn't come after you.
- mishmash 15y ago
  I've just: 1) saved their Privacy Policy and Terms of Use 2) requested a complete deletion of our family's account 3) requested deletion of any/all stored information 4) considering contacting our lawyer As I emailed to Path's support, our 3-4 year old children's schools, bus companies, physicians, pharmacies and our family lawyer were in that contact list - that's an insane, willful, and quite unexpected violation of our privacy. Worse, it could have easily been solved by adding an entry to their Privacy Policy (under the "What Personal Information Do We Collect?" section) and/or a simple dialog prompt. Unbelievable.
  - damptrousers 15y ago
    Lawyer? God, get a fucking grip. No wonder companies treat their users like morons.
    - mishmash 15y ago
      Because asking for advice from those wiser than oneself clearly makes one a moron.
  - rokhayakebe 15y ago
    considering contacting our lawyer What do you expect to achieve with this step?
    - guywithabike 15y ago
      To get his money back, of course.
      - mishmash 15y ago
        To get perspective, actually. Most lawyers are wicked smart and it sucks you aren't in a position to have such a valuable resource available in your own life. HTH.
        deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
  - ryanwaggoner 15y ago
    As I emailed to Path's support, our 3-4 year old children's schools, bus companies, physicians, pharmacies and our family lawyer were in that contact list Ok, I'm going to pick on you for a second. Hold the downvotes everyone! Let me explain. This seems like a bit of a knee-jerk reaction akin to "think of the children!" or the whole child porn scare-mongering that politicians engage in that we on HN are always criticizing. I recognize that Path screwed up, big-time, but I'm unclear on why them having the information you cited, along with dozens or hundreds of other contacts from your address book, for millions of users, constitutes some kind of terrible threat to your children. I mean, their schools, their bus companies? How is that even remotely useful information to anyone? I think there's plenty to criticize here from just the high-level perspective of "they used my contacts without my permission", without use the children scare-mongering tactic. But maybe there's a specific threat in mind that I'm not thinking of? Anyway, just thought your response was a little over the top, and more informed by emotion than reason. Ok, now everyone can downvote :)
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
      - mishmash 15y ago
        One of my kids has special needs. This means he rides a certain bus and goes to a certain school. It would be trivial to uniquely identify him for the rest of his LIFE with only the information contained in my contacts list. So now, without consent, this "private" "friends and family"-based app I installed on my phone, plus it's company, plus any other company they choose to do business with, or any entity that acquires them in perpetuity, or any data mining, social profiling, credit bureau, can start building far-reaching and long-lasting profiles of a four year old little boy that needs a extra help. What part of that confuses you? p.s. this could have been avoided with a dozen lines of code via a dialog box.
        toadi 15y ago
        Actually there is a simple solution for your problem. Don't use social apps. Especially not if they are free! Do you also buy snake oil if it comes with a document using lots of difficult sounding words but ends saying it cures everything?
  - toadi 15y ago
    Seems to be an ad misericordiam argument. It's bad they share private information of people in your contact list without your or their permission. But adding children in the mix is just used to add effect to your argument. Don't really like this kind of argumentation.
- droithomme 15y ago
  Yes, good point. And regarding state attorney generals, how is this not data theft? It seems to go far beyond privacy issues, the program is in every way that matters a trojan that steals personal data. I can't see how it could not be considered so given the details of what was discovered.
  - bigiain 15y ago
    If I were an evil-state-attorney-general, I'd be calling up Path and saying "Here's a list of names (unsaid - of suspected drug dealers), please forward all of their details and contacts, and the details and contacts of anyone who lists them as a contact. Thanks"
    - hessenwolf 15y ago
      Yeah - or I hire a private eye to spy on my wife and he pays off a path DBA. Don't people always complain on HN that they don't get enough kaching?
pclark 15y ago
If I were involved in this (and I'm not, I just think transparency - not privacy - matters) I would want the CEO and CTO of Path to create a video that is displayed to all relevant users in their mobile app. The first thing they do is apologise, they explain in plain words what people are up in arms about, the CTO reiterates that a) this was dumb and a poor choice but we are all human, b) what this means (eg: we did this not for our value but to deliver the best experience by matching you to your friends effortlessly) and c) why this matters on a macro scale for the industry. I would respect a company that did this because they are not only addressing users that are aware of it but also users that are not aware (but are affected.) Wiping data is fine but it feels like it doesn't solve the crux of this problem -- communication and transparency. Companies make mistakes and they can fix them, sure, but communicating about them? that's much cooler. (I suspect this is overkill unless mainstream news catches on this - which seems unlikely)
- rhizome 15y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if there is an engineer there who voiced concerns, but whether they still work there or not would be an open question. Wherever they are, they should be found and put in charge of development.
  - FuzzyDunlop 15y ago
    Ethical engineer: "I've got a problem with doing this, we're storing personal info without permission. Shouldn't we at least have something that lets our users know?" Ambivalent boss: "I don't think it's a problem, who's going to notice anyway?" Not that the ethical engineer will get anything more than personal vindication for actually giving a shit.
- JS_startup 15y ago
  I would want the CEO to: 1) Immediately delete all of the non-user data 2) Send an apology e-mail to each Path user explaining the situation 3) Write, by hand, a corresponding apology letter for each Path user 4) Hold a townhall-style meeting in which members of the public can ask him questions 5) Pay, out of pocket, the travel expenses of anyone who attends the townhall meeting 6) Wear an indicator of shame (large necklace or a sign) for as long as he is CEO of the company

AJ007 15y ago

That's not a PR move, that's what you do while crossing your fingers that state attorney generals and the FTC doesn't come after you.

mishmash 15y ago
I've just: 1) saved their Privacy Policy and Terms of Use 2) requested a complete deletion of our family's account 3) requested deletion of any/all stored information 4) considering contacting our lawyer As I emailed to Path's support, our 3-4 year old children's schools, bus companies, physicians, pharmacies and our family lawyer were in that contact list - that's an insane, willful, and quite unexpected violation of our privacy. Worse, it could have easily been solved by adding an entry to their Privacy Policy (under the "What Personal Information Do We Collect?" section) and/or a simple dialog prompt. Unbelievable.
- damptrousers 15y ago
  Lawyer? God, get a fucking grip. No wonder companies treat their users like morons.
  - mishmash 15y ago
    Because asking for advice from those wiser than oneself clearly makes one a moron.
- rokhayakebe 15y ago
  considering contacting our lawyer What do you expect to achieve with this step?
  - guywithabike 15y ago
    To get his money back, of course.
    - mishmash 15y ago
      To get perspective, actually. Most lawyers are wicked smart and it sucks you aren't in a position to have such a valuable resource available in your own life. HTH.
      - deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
- ryanwaggoner 15y ago
  As I emailed to Path's support, our 3-4 year old children's schools, bus companies, physicians, pharmacies and our family lawyer were in that contact list Ok, I'm going to pick on you for a second. Hold the downvotes everyone! Let me explain. This seems like a bit of a knee-jerk reaction akin to "think of the children!" or the whole child porn scare-mongering that politicians engage in that we on HN are always criticizing. I recognize that Path screwed up, big-time, but I'm unclear on why them having the information you cited, along with dozens or hundreds of other contacts from your address book, for millions of users, constitutes some kind of terrible threat to your children. I mean, their schools, their bus companies? How is that even remotely useful information to anyone? I think there's plenty to criticize here from just the high-level perspective of "they used my contacts without my permission", without use the children scare-mongering tactic. But maybe there's a specific threat in mind that I'm not thinking of? Anyway, just thought your response was a little over the top, and more informed by emotion than reason. Ok, now everyone can downvote :)
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
    - mishmash 15y ago
      One of my kids has special needs. This means he rides a certain bus and goes to a certain school. It would be trivial to uniquely identify him for the rest of his LIFE with only the information contained in my contacts list. So now, without consent, this "private" "friends and family"-based app I installed on my phone, plus it's company, plus any other company they choose to do business with, or any entity that acquires them in perpetuity, or any data mining, social profiling, credit bureau, can start building far-reaching and long-lasting profiles of a four year old little boy that needs a extra help. What part of that confuses you? p.s. this could have been avoided with a dozen lines of code via a dialog box.
      - toadi 15y ago
        Actually there is a simple solution for your problem. Don't use social apps. Especially not if they are free! Do you also buy snake oil if it comes with a document using lots of difficult sounding words but ends saying it cures everything?
- toadi 15y ago
  Seems to be an ad misericordiam argument. It's bad they share private information of people in your contact list without your or their permission. But adding children in the mix is just used to add effect to your argument. Don't really like this kind of argumentation.
droithomme 15y ago
Yes, good point. And regarding state attorney generals, how is this not data theft? It seems to go far beyond privacy issues, the program is in every way that matters a trojan that steals personal data. I can't see how it could not be considered so given the details of what was discovered.
- bigiain 15y ago
  If I were an evil-state-attorney-general, I'd be calling up Path and saying "Here's a list of names (unsaid - of suspected drug dealers), please forward all of their details and contacts, and the details and contacts of anyone who lists them as a contact. Thanks"
  - hessenwolf 15y ago
    Yeah - or I hire a private eye to spy on my wife and he pays off a path DBA. Don't people always complain on HN that they don't get enough kaching?

pclark 15y ago

If I were involved in this (and I'm not, I just think transparency - not privacy - matters) I would want the CEO and CTO of Path to create a video that is displayed to all relevant users in their mobile app. The first thing they do is apologise, they explain in plain words what people are up in arms about, the CTO reiterates that a) this was dumb and a poor choice but we are all human, b) what this means (eg: we did this not for our value but to deliver the best experience by matching you to your friends effortlessly) and c) why this matters on a macro scale for the industry. I would respect a company that did this because they are not only addressing users that are aware of it but also users that are not aware (but are affected.) Wiping data is fine but it feels like it doesn't solve the crux of this problem -- communication and transparency. Companies make mistakes and they can fix them, sure, but communicating about them? that's much cooler. (I suspect this is overkill unless mainstream news catches on this - which seems unlikely)

rhizome 15y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if there is an engineer there who voiced concerns, but whether they still work there or not would be an open question. Wherever they are, they should be found and put in charge of development.
- FuzzyDunlop 15y ago
  Ethical engineer: "I've got a problem with doing this, we're storing personal info without permission. Shouldn't we at least have something that lets our users know?" Ambivalent boss: "I don't think it's a problem, who's going to notice anyway?" Not that the ethical engineer will get anything more than personal vindication for actually giving a shit.
JS_startup 15y ago
I would want the CEO to: 1) Immediately delete all of the non-user data 2) Send an apology e-mail to each Path user explaining the situation 3) Write, by hand, a corresponding apology letter for each Path user 4) Hold a townhall-style meeting in which members of the public can ask him questions 5) Pay, out of pocket, the travel expenses of anyone who attends the townhall meeting 6) Wear an indicator of shame (large necklace or a sign) for as long as he is CEO of the company