3 ms·

I really hope we don't get a new version of the "You cannot view this webpage because you are in the EU", this time for LLMs.

by cfn 3y ago

bonzini 3y ago
That would not be enough. You need to implement the right to be forgotten of European citizens even if you are not offering services in the EU. Rather, I wonder what would be the effect of this on open source weights, as they have the same issue of being able to produce personal data of European citizens.
- charcircuit 3y ago
  >even if you are not offering services in the EU. If a company isn't operating in the EU then there is little the EU can do to them as the EU doesn't have jurisdiction over them.
  - emodendroket 3y ago
    Unfortunately for them companies like Microsoft and Google are operating in the EU, so it may not be that easy
  - olivierduval 3y ago
    That's called "extra territorial" laws... and that's an US-concept lately brought in the EU laws (to counteract US extra territorial laws). It's the same as the US able to fine two foreign entities doing business together... because they use dollar for the transaction: the US is not part of the transaction EXCEPT for the use of the money. Usually, the "guilty" companies will be fined and then... either ignore it (but risk trouble directly in the US or when they will try to have business with an US entity... or with an entity having part of its activity in US...), or just pay. Same will apply here: either pay the fine or you won't be able to do business in the EU nor with any EU company... and possibly even not with a company in business with a EU company (indirectly)
    - filoleg 3y ago
      Thanks for the explanation, but it basically converges on what the grandparent comment stated, right? I.e., unless your business deals with EU companies or operates in EU, then you are free to ignore it. And if you decide in the future that you want to deal with EU companies/operate in EU, you have the option of paying the fine and moving on. > either pay the fine or you won't be able to do business [...] possibly even not with a company in business with a EU company That one seems a bit sus, because it would imply that you won't be able to use GCP/Azure/AWS for cloud services, and that just doesn't sound right. Afaik they wouldn't blanket refuse cloud services to an american business that doesn't follow EU laws (in case the business simply doesn't care to operate in EU or make money from there). Not a legal professional at all, so if someone could provide a better explanation of the situation, it would certainly be welcome.

I really hope we don't get a new version of the "You cannot view this webpage because you are in the EU", this time for LLMs.

by cfn 3y ago

I really hope we don't get a new version of the "You cannot view this webpage because you are in the EU", this time for LLMs.

bonzini 3y ago

That would not be enough. You need to implement the right to be forgotten of European citizens even if you are not offering services in the EU. Rather, I wonder what would be the effect of this on open source weights, as they have the same issue of being able to produce personal data of European citizens.

charcircuit 3y ago
>even if you are not offering services in the EU. If a company isn't operating in the EU then there is little the EU can do to them as the EU doesn't have jurisdiction over them.
- emodendroket 3y ago
  Unfortunately for them companies like Microsoft and Google are operating in the EU, so it may not be that easy
- olivierduval 3y ago
  That's called "extra territorial" laws... and that's an US-concept lately brought in the EU laws (to counteract US extra territorial laws). It's the same as the US able to fine two foreign entities doing business together... because they use dollar for the transaction: the US is not part of the transaction EXCEPT for the use of the money. Usually, the "guilty" companies will be fined and then... either ignore it (but risk trouble directly in the US or when they will try to have business with an US entity... or with an entity having part of its activity in US...), or just pay. Same will apply here: either pay the fine or you won't be able to do business in the EU nor with any EU company... and possibly even not with a company in business with a EU company (indirectly)
  - filoleg 3y ago
    Thanks for the explanation, but it basically converges on what the grandparent comment stated, right? I.e., unless your business deals with EU companies or operates in EU, then you are free to ignore it. And if you decide in the future that you want to deal with EU companies/operate in EU, you have the option of paying the fine and moving on. > either pay the fine or you won't be able to do business [...] possibly even not with a company in business with a EU company That one seems a bit sus, because it would imply that you won't be able to use GCP/Azure/AWS for cloud services, and that just doesn't sound right. Afaik they wouldn't blanket refuse cloud services to an american business that doesn't follow EU laws (in case the business simply doesn't care to operate in EU or make money from there). Not a legal professional at all, so if someone could provide a better explanation of the situation, it would certainly be welcome.