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How to Succeed as an Introvert

179 points by hn12 15y ago

nplusone 15y ago
It's fitting that a story that hit the front page on Hacker News about introverts has no comments. </meta>
- _feda_ 15y ago
  I sense a certain disdain from much of the HN community for introvert/extrovert pop theory. They're all too frequently reduced to meaningless buzzwords.
  - gwern 15y ago
    My general rule of thumb is that any thing which talks about a Big Five personality trait (like Extraversion, in this case) but does not cite any studies is not worth reading.
eof 15y ago
I would imagine the readership of HN is over represented by 'successful' 'introverts'. I am not rich, but I am reasonably happy and by pretty much any reasonable measure have a 'successful' life. At 29 y/o I command an hourly wage that puts me in something like the top .05% of humanity, I have a gf I love, etc. And, I am an introvert. I am also a tiny bit shy with folks I don't know. I think my ability to navigate a loud, look-at-me world comes chiefly from self awareness and really just NGAF. Put in a high-schoolesque way; the key to being a succesful introvert is by coming across as mysterious rather than boring. There can be an inherent urge to justify ones actions when confronted with things like 'why are you so quiet.. or you havent said much over there..'. The difference between blubbering and trying to defend yourself with excuses and calmly showing your palms, or saying 'im just listening' is the difference between someone who knows who they are and someone who doesn't. I think really though the title of this submission/article is generally implying something that isn't so true: that it is particularly difficult to succeed as an introvert. The advice for an introvert is really the same as an extrovert: do what you are good at and what you like to do; and don't spend so much time and effort on things you don't like.
rokhayakebe 15y ago
There are 2 phases in your life, and a third one if you are really lucky. During the first phase you will care what others think of you (and you will be a puppet); most people were born and will die here. Extroverts live there. During the second phase, you will ask yourself "what is the fucking point", then you won't give a fuck what most people think. Some introverts make it there. I'll skip the third phase.
- ChrisMac 15y ago
  Gotta disagree with your statement that extroverts all care about what people think of them. Just because someone is outgoing and energized by interpersonal interactions, it doesn't automatically mean they're a mindless slave to other people's opinions and social conventions. It's just a negative stereotype, and comes across as a bit bitter and "Us vs. Them" The implied positive stereotype about introverts isn't necessarily true either, that they're all independent thinkers and unshackled from social trivialities.
  - rokhayakebe 15y ago
    Some introverts make it there. Some, not most. As for extroverts, I stand by my statement. They just need others too much in order to keep up. With that kind of mind set, it is hard to get near emotional independence.
- colonel_panic 15y ago
  A lot of introverts do care what others think and tell themselves they don't care in order rationalize their social failures and unwillingness to expose their vulnerabilities. Some might be able to fake it 'til they make it, but all too many just keep faking it and dying on the inside.
  - rokhayakebe 15y ago
    I agree entirely. I mostly introverted(maybe 85-15). I used to care what others think, it still do, but way way....... way way less, nearing zero. Extroverts by definition need/want others around them, and it's kind of hard to say "I like to be the center of attention" and "I do not care how others, or most people around me, perceive me" together.
joshu 15y ago
Author should consider writing "how to get traffic by posting your blog to social news sites" article. http://h30565.www3.hp.com/t5/user/v1/viewprofilepage/user-id/23 http://h30565.www3.hp.com/t5/user/v1/viewprofilepage/user-id...
- rsmiller510 15y ago
  Joshu, I'm not sure what exactly you're complaining about. The person who posted the link is not the same person who wrote it. They just happen to work at the same site with oh 50 or 60 other writers. But even if the author had promoted her own story, so what? I can tell you that as a writer, I promote my own work on social sites because being read is a goal of mine and also because page views make my editors happy and keep me working. I make no apologies for that. It's actually part of what any good writer should be doing. After I publish a post I usually spend a good 20-30 minutes promoting it on social sites--so people know it's there and actually read it.
  - joshu 15y ago
    self-promoters have awfully mixed reasons for promoting their own stuff. this leads to problems. - they are free-riding, not helping the community. notice that OP doesn't really post things they are not involved with. i notice you do the same. - they do not disclose it is self-authored. - the behavior is often looked down-upon by communities. i certainly feel bad about doing it. - when authors are chasing pageviews and not reputation they are often submitting everything rather than attempting to curate good stuff. - there's an incredibly fine line between this and spam. when someone submits something that they found, they are saying "this is good." when someome submits something that they wrote, they are saying something subtly different: "please look at this" it's forgivable when they are part of the community, because at least they know what the community is about. i notice that your first comment on this site is about self-posting. you are unapologetic about submitting your stuff but the vast majority gets zero upvotes. wrong audience, probably.
    - rsmiller510 15y ago
      joshu, The fact is that the writer of this post and the person who posted were two different people, so regardless of what you think of self-promotion, it simply wasn't relevant in this instance.
ReidZB 15y ago
I don't really like the article. It seems to cultivate the mindset that introverts are somehow disabled or lesser than extroverts in social situations, which obviously isn't true: otherwise, how could we have had any introverted presidents? (I'd argue to be the president, you have to have quite a bit of social finesse.) The reality is that introverts are not incapable of dealing with social situations and don't really need advice on how to "tackle" group situations, as one of the questions implies. As an aside, that question is what inspired me to write this response, because I found it very offending that an introvert would need 'tips' on how to tackle a group situation. For instance, I am extremely introverted. When I am in a group situation (especially in a position of leadership), it's not that I balk at the contact with others or have difficulty interacting socially. Instead, I am very quiet and much less chatty than the rest of the group because I am listening very intently and analyzing what they are saying. The net effect is that when I do actually start to speak up, everyone else listens because they have a pretty good idea that what I'm going to say is going to be relevant and/or interesting, at least hopefully. What this boils down to is a different style of management. I'm only in college, but my experience so far is that extroverted 'leaders' tend to guide discussion through conversation and heavy interaction. As an introvert, my approach is quite a bit different: I try to let the discussion happen organically and guide it through questioning/assent if it's absolutely necessary. And if I hear an idea I really like but feel like the person explaining it hasn't done it justice, I'll agree with it and try to add some more reasons. In other words, I only intervene when I feel like it's actually necessary, and that means that when I do talk, people tend to listen more, as a general rule. I don't really know what method is better, and like I said, I'm only in college so I don't claim to be some manager with a few decades of experiences by any means. Beyond the manager scenario, typical social interactions aren't much different for me. The real difference that I prefer downtime between big social events, whereas it seems to me that extroverts don't like that downtime. But most of that is based on my trying to classify my friends as introverted/extroverted and looking at their behavior; i.e., this reply is mostly anecdotal. (I'm also not sure introversion/extroversion is so black and white, which most people tend to treat it as.)
- kijin 15y ago
  You're right, there's nothing black and white about this introvert/extrovert business. At one extreme, there are highly extroverted people who simply can't imagine not interacting with hundreds of people on a regular basis. At the other extreme, there are people who actually suffer a medical condition known as autistic spectrum disorder (which itself contains a large gradient). Everything in between is a gradient. Psychiatrists still have no idea how to distinguish a person with mild Asperger's from a person who is simply introverted. This, of course, doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with taking a slice of the gradient and analyzing the hell out of it. Writing about a complicated topic always involves a certain amount of simplification and drawing lines where it's actually quite blurry. I've read articles that do this job much better than the link does, but this one isn't the worst, either.
jonnathanson 15y ago
As an introvert repeatedly flummoxed and exhausted by office politics in the earliest stages of my career, I very nearly resigned myself to always being overlooked. I didn't have the emotional energy to be schmoozing, wheeling, and dealing; I'd much rather have invested that same time and energy in learning, growing, and producing great work. Consciously, I realized that I was taking the sucker's bet -- that the schmoozers and bullshitters would always rise to the top, and that I'd be stuck in second gear. And so I came to adopt a mentality of learned helplessness: an overreliance on the hope that, someday, somehow, my ship would come in. I'd be recognized. My great work would produce outsized results, and all of my quiet toiling would be vindicated. That day never came. What came, instead, was an eye-opening reversal. I had a very candid conversation with my boss about why I wasn't on track for promotion, despite a long string of big wins, and a consistent track record well above the expectations of my pay grade. And he told me that "Nobody outside of our group knows what you're working on." Note that he didn't tell me that I wasn't bullshitting or schmoozing hard enough. Rather, he told me that I was basically invisible to a large portion of the company. Maybe it's just the way I'm wired, but this was a nonobvious and nontrivial revelation to me. I suspect it may be for a lot of introverts. To overcome this barrier, I adopted the "win a few key allies" strategy, as loosely advocated in the interview. I knew I wasn't going to be a world-class bullshitter. So, rather than try to bullshit clumsily and more frequently, I opted to find people in positions of power who were known to have similarly low tolerances for bullshit. And I volunteered to help these people. I made it my mission to knock it out of the park for them -- and, in so doing, to become known as the "no bullshit" guy who really delivered. To this day, it's not all blue skies and roses. Even as a known commodity at your firm, you're still going to get lapped by the extroverts. But as an introvert, you really do have to step outside of your comfort zone if you want to advance your career. You don't have to out-BS the BSers, but you have to consciously devote time to getting noticed and staying noticed. Never assume that good work will get noticed on its own. If a tree falls in the woods, and no one's around to hear it, it doesn't matter if it makes a sound.
- paulhauggis 15y ago
  This is very true. I think of it like marketing: you need to sell yourself. The people that don't want to play politics or just want to code will always be left behind.
drivebyacct2 15y ago
I don't understand these articles. Introvert does NOT mean that you're incapable of communicating well or being friendly. I pride myself on communication skills, yet I can go weeks at a time without any human interaction and prefer to work in conditions that are mocked by others as a "cave". These things have not prevented me from having good relationships with clients and/or colleagues. As for jonnathanson's comment, frankly it doesn't sound like an introvert issue, it sounds like a basic communication issue. If no one knows what you're doing and you don't take the time to let others understand your accomplishments (even just an email to the team "Hey, I got X,Y,Z done and a proposal for W", what are they supposed to do exactly?
- suneilp 15y ago
  I'm with you on the communication issue. After all, no one is 100% introverted. That term has also become misunderstood and misused. Additionally, there tend to be other negative qualities associated with introverts. Just as there are negative qualities for extroverts. One thing I did recently that's helped me deal with being an 'introvert' was to take improv comedy classes. It's helped me significantly to overcome shyness and communicating with people. Communicating is a like a muscle, you need to step out of your comfort zone and just do it. Staying in the 'cave' too much at a time isn't good. It's sorta like atrophy. Just go out once a week and socialize or go to lunch with a co-worker.
  - hobin 15y ago
    "I'm with you on the communication issue. After all, no one is 100% introverted. That term has also become misunderstood and misused." Yet you still seem to think that introversion and communication skills have something to do with each other ('after all ---'). I don't think this is true. The fundamental difference between introversion and extraversion appears to be how people 'spend' energy and how they 'gain' energy. For example, I'm probably as introverted as they come. Yet in social situations I seem like an 'extraverted' person, because when I'm with people, I like to talk quite a bit, have some social chatter, all that stuff. But this can tire me. And then there are months when I don't go out and socialize, simply because I'm tired and like to be alone with my thoughts. None of this has much to do with skills of any kind.
asdkl234890 15y ago
Deep-thinking, sensitive and publicity-shy, introverts. Sensitive and publicity-shy is NOT introversion! Screw this, I give up. From now on "introvert" means shy and other social problems.
- stewbrew 15y ago
  So, shyness is a social problem now?
  - bh42222 15y ago
    Well if you're shy enough it will stymie your social life. Also it has nothing to do with introversion. But I think the OP's point is that "introvert" now means anyone who could be either, shy, or socially anxious, or any number of other things. I remember not that long ago the on-line geeky community embraced Asperger syndrome as an excuse for lacking social skills, or being socially anxious, or forever alone, etc. People who clearly did not have it claimed they had a "light" version of it. Other people called them on it, fortunately that meme did not sick. But the all my social awkwardness is due to me being an introvert (when in fact you could very well be an social super awkward extrovert) meme is sticking. That's too bad for those who are not socially awkward at all, but are introverts. But oh well. We just need to invent a new term which will not be co-opted by every shy and socially rough extrovert who thinks she's an introvert because he doesn't have enough friends or enough recognition at work.
gamechangr 15y ago
The truth....Extroverts are consistently chosen as leaders. There is no way around it, from the numbers. That doesn't make them better or worse. We all have our part to play.
- duggan 15y ago
  Dear me, how patronizing. The reason, by the way, that leadership is often correlated with extroversion is more to do with American ideals of the perfect citizen since about the time of Dale Carnegie than due to any actual results. In fact many successful CEOs are introverts, because deep critical thinking and mediation tend to be useful qualities, surprisingly enough. Not in finance though. And the world of finance has had a smooth ride, alright.
  - gamechangr 15y ago
    Actually think it has more to do with the fact that extroverted people are more persuasive and generally voice their opinions more. Some of it is just in the numbers...if you know more people you have a strategic advantage of more opportunities. Oh yeah....It's not an American concept????
- zeroonetwothree 15y ago
  Where is the evidence for this? I think it's simply not true.
atldev 15y ago
Don't waste time worrying about how to succeed as an introvert. You'll find examples of successful communicators, entrepreneurs, leaders, and CEOs that are all introverts. I would write more about examples and experience, but back to point #1. Don't waste time worrying about how to succeed as an introvert.
darasen 15y ago
I applied for a job that had one of those idiotic 'personality tests'. They could have boiled it down to one question: Introvert or not. I was told they thought I scored too low to consider. For some reason I had decided to answer honestly instead of the choice they were obviously looking for. One question in particular annoyed me was something along the lines of when not at work do prefer to be in a crowd of people or at home. What does not at work have to do with anything work related?
- setrofim_ 15y ago
  If a company seriously uses such tests to select hires, you're probably better off not working for them. Personality and "cultural fit" are important aspects (for some jobs more than others), but a much better way to assess those is to spend an hour talking to the potential employee; not through some standardized test. I've also heard that some companies still use graphology in their screening process (though this may be just an urban myth).
larve 15y ago
I am a bit wary of the introvert/extrovert labeling, but have bought the bought and decided to read through it. Playing the game, I'd say I'm an introvert, and to be honest, the cool thing about this is realizing that all I really need is time for myself. It doesn't really matter what happens or what the circumstances are, as long as I have a book or a computer or a pencil I'm pretty much happy in my own little bubble. Because I used to love sharing what I discovered in that little bubble so much, I went through a phase where I learned public speaking, and also connecting to people. I usually do this one and one, but find it very easy to establish deep connections by actually cutting through the "bullshit". I then started a company, and had to put myself out there quite a bit more. Having had no real experience of social contacts before though (except these connections with I have to admit people pretty much far out there), I went far overboard, which came back to bite me. I think that is the biggest issue with all the "introversion" (not really thinking about reaching out to other people, maybe even not really thinking about myself as a person nor other people at all). I have no real concept of emotions, of how people could react, that people can do things that hurt, that you can do things that hurt other people, etc... I am now 30, I still believe that people are fundamentally good, but I see the shades of gray in their actions. That's stuff that more "extrovert" people probably learn at age 15. The older I get the more I realize that I actually need social contact, at least a few times a week. And I'm definitely struggling with that very much. After that "getting out there thing", and running into a few quite hurtful things, I completely lashed out to the other side, going back to my hacking and art and what not, but actually actively destroying everything I produce (unless it's for a client) so that other people won't notice, and I don't feel the need to talk about it. It's a hard habit to get out from. And I still don't actually know if it would be better for other people to notice, or if being the submarine in a society where most people you notice are actively craving for recognition. Recognition feels empty, while being happy on your own is much more rewarding. I hope that this book (it may be nicely written and founded, or just another substanceless self-help book) will instill a small spark of self-confidence by just putting a label on my behaviour. That never hurts.
daintynews 15y ago
If this post was made in response to this article, I'm not sure. But I guess, it's also worth a read. www.swaglove.com/blog/why-offensive-people-are-more-successful/
agilebyte 15y ago
If someone is looking for a more detailed set of "labels" then check out Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI). Take a test here: http://similarminds.com/personality_tests.html http://similarminds.com/personality_tests.html and searching for your "type", judge for yourself if the advice given could advance you. As discussed before on HN, the readership here is skewed towards INTP/INTJ compared to a general population (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1675197 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1675197).
troels 15y ago
I really dislike that whole idea of an intro/extrovert dualism. I don't consider myself one or the other. Most people who know me would probably describe me as introverted, but I don't have any problem letting myself be heard or taking leadership of a situation if it's needed. So I just plain find that those labels don't fit me very well and I somehow find it implausible that I should be a unique snowflake, a statistical outlier.
yason 15y ago
Introversion means you charge energy by being alone and enjoying your own company, and you discharge when you spend time with others. Extraversion is the opposite. Introverts can exhibit extraverted behaviour, just like extraverts can exhibit introverted behaviour. It's just more taxing and the key is to balance between charging vs. discharging so that you won't run out of juice.
strickjb9 15y ago
Extrovery & Introverts compliment each other extremely well. Imagine if Steve Jobs & Steve Wozniak where both introverts.... or if they were both extroverts. That tandem would have never played out as well.

179 points by hn12 15y ago

nplusone 15y ago

It's fitting that a story that hit the front page on Hacker News about introverts has no comments. </meta>

_feda_ 15y ago
I sense a certain disdain from much of the HN community for introvert/extrovert pop theory. They're all too frequently reduced to meaningless buzzwords.
- gwern 15y ago
  My general rule of thumb is that any thing which talks about a Big Five personality trait (like Extraversion, in this case) but does not cite any studies is not worth reading.

eof 15y ago

I would imagine the readership of HN is over represented by 'successful' 'introverts'. I am not rich, but I am reasonably happy and by pretty much any reasonable measure have a 'successful' life. At 29 y/o I command an hourly wage that puts me in something like the top .05% of humanity, I have a gf I love, etc. And, I am an introvert. I am also a tiny bit shy with folks I don't know. I think my ability to navigate a loud, look-at-me world comes chiefly from self awareness and really just NGAF. Put in a high-schoolesque way; the key to being a succesful introvert is by coming across as mysterious rather than boring. There can be an inherent urge to justify ones actions when confronted with things like 'why are you so quiet.. or you havent said much over there..'. The difference between blubbering and trying to defend yourself with excuses and calmly showing your palms, or saying 'im just listening' is the difference between someone who knows who they are and someone who doesn't. I think really though the title of this submission/article is generally implying something that isn't so true: that it is particularly difficult to succeed as an introvert. The advice for an introvert is really the same as an extrovert: do what you are good at and what you like to do; and don't spend so much time and effort on things you don't like.

rokhayakebe 15y ago

There are 2 phases in your life, and a third one if you are really lucky. During the first phase you will care what others think of you (and you will be a puppet); most people were born and will die here. Extroverts live there. During the second phase, you will ask yourself "what is the fucking point", then you won't give a fuck what most people think. Some introverts make it there. I'll skip the third phase.

ChrisMac 15y ago
Gotta disagree with your statement that extroverts all care about what people think of them. Just because someone is outgoing and energized by interpersonal interactions, it doesn't automatically mean they're a mindless slave to other people's opinions and social conventions. It's just a negative stereotype, and comes across as a bit bitter and "Us vs. Them" The implied positive stereotype about introverts isn't necessarily true either, that they're all independent thinkers and unshackled from social trivialities.
- rokhayakebe 15y ago
  Some introverts make it there. Some, not most. As for extroverts, I stand by my statement. They just need others too much in order to keep up. With that kind of mind set, it is hard to get near emotional independence.
colonel_panic 15y ago
A lot of introverts do care what others think and tell themselves they don't care in order rationalize their social failures and unwillingness to expose their vulnerabilities. Some might be able to fake it 'til they make it, but all too many just keep faking it and dying on the inside.
- rokhayakebe 15y ago
  I agree entirely. I mostly introverted(maybe 85-15). I used to care what others think, it still do, but way way....... way way less, nearing zero. Extroverts by definition need/want others around them, and it's kind of hard to say "I like to be the center of attention" and "I do not care how others, or most people around me, perceive me" together.

joshu 15y ago

Author should consider writing "how to get traffic by posting your blog to social news sites" article. http://h30565.www3.hp.com/t5/user/v1/viewprofilepage/user-id/23 http://h30565.www3.hp.com/t5/user/v1/viewprofilepage/user-id...

rsmiller510 15y ago
Joshu, I'm not sure what exactly you're complaining about. The person who posted the link is not the same person who wrote it. They just happen to work at the same site with oh 50 or 60 other writers. But even if the author had promoted her own story, so what? I can tell you that as a writer, I promote my own work on social sites because being read is a goal of mine and also because page views make my editors happy and keep me working. I make no apologies for that. It's actually part of what any good writer should be doing. After I publish a post I usually spend a good 20-30 minutes promoting it on social sites--so people know it's there and actually read it.
- joshu 15y ago
  self-promoters have awfully mixed reasons for promoting their own stuff. this leads to problems. - they are free-riding, not helping the community. notice that OP doesn't really post things they are not involved with. i notice you do the same. - they do not disclose it is self-authored. - the behavior is often looked down-upon by communities. i certainly feel bad about doing it. - when authors are chasing pageviews and not reputation they are often submitting everything rather than attempting to curate good stuff. - there's an incredibly fine line between this and spam. when someone submits something that they found, they are saying "this is good." when someome submits something that they wrote, they are saying something subtly different: "please look at this" it's forgivable when they are part of the community, because at least they know what the community is about. i notice that your first comment on this site is about self-posting. you are unapologetic about submitting your stuff but the vast majority gets zero upvotes. wrong audience, probably.
  - rsmiller510 15y ago
    joshu, The fact is that the writer of this post and the person who posted were two different people, so regardless of what you think of self-promotion, it simply wasn't relevant in this instance.

ReidZB 15y ago

I don't really like the article. It seems to cultivate the mindset that introverts are somehow disabled or lesser than extroverts in social situations, which obviously isn't true: otherwise, how could we have had any introverted presidents? (I'd argue to be the president, you have to have quite a bit of social finesse.) The reality is that introverts are not incapable of dealing with social situations and don't really need advice on how to "tackle" group situations, as one of the questions implies. As an aside, that question is what inspired me to write this response, because I found it very offending that an introvert would need 'tips' on how to tackle a group situation. For instance, I am extremely introverted. When I am in a group situation (especially in a position of leadership), it's not that I balk at the contact with others or have difficulty interacting socially. Instead, I am very quiet and much less chatty than the rest of the group because I am listening very intently and analyzing what they are saying. The net effect is that when I do actually start to speak up, everyone else listens because they have a pretty good idea that what I'm going to say is going to be relevant and/or interesting, at least hopefully. What this boils down to is a different style of management. I'm only in college, but my experience so far is that extroverted 'leaders' tend to guide discussion through conversation and heavy interaction. As an introvert, my approach is quite a bit different: I try to let the discussion happen organically and guide it through questioning/assent if it's absolutely necessary. And if I hear an idea I really like but feel like the person explaining it hasn't done it justice, I'll agree with it and try to add some more reasons. In other words, I only intervene when I feel like it's actually necessary, and that means that when I do talk, people tend to listen more, as a general rule. I don't really know what method is better, and like I said, I'm only in college so I don't claim to be some manager with a few decades of experiences by any means. Beyond the manager scenario, typical social interactions aren't much different for me. The real difference that I prefer downtime between big social events, whereas it seems to me that extroverts don't like that downtime. But most of that is based on my trying to classify my friends as introverted/extroverted and looking at their behavior; i.e., this reply is mostly anecdotal. (I'm also not sure introversion/extroversion is so black and white, which most people tend to treat it as.)

kijin 15y ago
You're right, there's nothing black and white about this introvert/extrovert business. At one extreme, there are highly extroverted people who simply can't imagine not interacting with hundreds of people on a regular basis. At the other extreme, there are people who actually suffer a medical condition known as autistic spectrum disorder (which itself contains a large gradient). Everything in between is a gradient. Psychiatrists still have no idea how to distinguish a person with mild Asperger's from a person who is simply introverted. This, of course, doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with taking a slice of the gradient and analyzing the hell out of it. Writing about a complicated topic always involves a certain amount of simplification and drawing lines where it's actually quite blurry. I've read articles that do this job much better than the link does, but this one isn't the worst, either.

jonnathanson 15y ago

As an introvert repeatedly flummoxed and exhausted by office politics in the earliest stages of my career, I very nearly resigned myself to always being overlooked. I didn't have the emotional energy to be schmoozing, wheeling, and dealing; I'd much rather have invested that same time and energy in learning, growing, and producing great work. Consciously, I realized that I was taking the sucker's bet -- that the schmoozers and bullshitters would always rise to the top, and that I'd be stuck in second gear. And so I came to adopt a mentality of learned helplessness: an overreliance on the hope that, someday, somehow, my ship would come in. I'd be recognized. My great work would produce outsized results, and all of my quiet toiling would be vindicated. That day never came. What came, instead, was an eye-opening reversal. I had a very candid conversation with my boss about why I wasn't on track for promotion, despite a long string of big wins, and a consistent track record well above the expectations of my pay grade. And he told me that "Nobody outside of our group knows what you're working on." Note that he didn't tell me that I wasn't bullshitting or schmoozing hard enough. Rather, he told me that I was basically invisible to a large portion of the company. Maybe it's just the way I'm wired, but this was a nonobvious and nontrivial revelation to me. I suspect it may be for a lot of introverts. To overcome this barrier, I adopted the "win a few key allies" strategy, as loosely advocated in the interview. I knew I wasn't going to be a world-class bullshitter. So, rather than try to bullshit clumsily and more frequently, I opted to find people in positions of power who were known to have similarly low tolerances for bullshit. And I volunteered to help these people. I made it my mission to knock it out of the park for them -- and, in so doing, to become known as the "no bullshit" guy who really delivered. To this day, it's not all blue skies and roses. Even as a known commodity at your firm, you're still going to get lapped by the extroverts. But as an introvert, you really do have to step outside of your comfort zone if you want to advance your career. You don't have to out-BS the BSers, but you have to consciously devote time to getting noticed and staying noticed. Never assume that good work will get noticed on its own. If a tree falls in the woods, and no one's around to hear it, it doesn't matter if it makes a sound.

paulhauggis 15y ago
This is very true. I think of it like marketing: you need to sell yourself. The people that don't want to play politics or just want to code will always be left behind.

drivebyacct2 15y ago

I don't understand these articles. Introvert does NOT mean that you're incapable of communicating well or being friendly. I pride myself on communication skills, yet I can go weeks at a time without any human interaction and prefer to work in conditions that are mocked by others as a "cave". These things have not prevented me from having good relationships with clients and/or colleagues. As for jonnathanson's comment, frankly it doesn't sound like an introvert issue, it sounds like a basic communication issue. If no one knows what you're doing and you don't take the time to let others understand your accomplishments (even just an email to the team "Hey, I got X,Y,Z done and a proposal for W", what are they supposed to do exactly?

suneilp 15y ago
I'm with you on the communication issue. After all, no one is 100% introverted. That term has also become misunderstood and misused. Additionally, there tend to be other negative qualities associated with introverts. Just as there are negative qualities for extroverts. One thing I did recently that's helped me deal with being an 'introvert' was to take improv comedy classes. It's helped me significantly to overcome shyness and communicating with people. Communicating is a like a muscle, you need to step out of your comfort zone and just do it. Staying in the 'cave' too much at a time isn't good. It's sorta like atrophy. Just go out once a week and socialize or go to lunch with a co-worker.
- hobin 15y ago
  "I'm with you on the communication issue. After all, no one is 100% introverted. That term has also become misunderstood and misused." Yet you still seem to think that introversion and communication skills have something to do with each other ('after all ---'). I don't think this is true. The fundamental difference between introversion and extraversion appears to be how people 'spend' energy and how they 'gain' energy. For example, I'm probably as introverted as they come. Yet in social situations I seem like an 'extraverted' person, because when I'm with people, I like to talk quite a bit, have some social chatter, all that stuff. But this can tire me. And then there are months when I don't go out and socialize, simply because I'm tired and like to be alone with my thoughts. None of this has much to do with skills of any kind.

asdkl234890 15y ago

Deep-thinking, sensitive and publicity-shy, introverts. Sensitive and publicity-shy is NOT introversion! Screw this, I give up. From now on "introvert" means shy and other social problems.

stewbrew 15y ago
So, shyness is a social problem now?
- bh42222 15y ago
  Well if you're shy enough it will stymie your social life. Also it has nothing to do with introversion. But I think the OP's point is that "introvert" now means anyone who could be either, shy, or socially anxious, or any number of other things. I remember not that long ago the on-line geeky community embraced Asperger syndrome as an excuse for lacking social skills, or being socially anxious, or forever alone, etc. People who clearly did not have it claimed they had a "light" version of it. Other people called them on it, fortunately that meme did not sick. But the all my social awkwardness is due to me being an introvert (when in fact you could very well be an social super awkward extrovert) meme is sticking. That's too bad for those who are not socially awkward at all, but are introverts. But oh well. We just need to invent a new term which will not be co-opted by every shy and socially rough extrovert who thinks she's an introvert because he doesn't have enough friends or enough recognition at work.

gamechangr 15y ago

The truth....Extroverts are consistently chosen as leaders. There is no way around it, from the numbers. That doesn't make them better or worse. We all have our part to play.

duggan 15y ago
Dear me, how patronizing. The reason, by the way, that leadership is often correlated with extroversion is more to do with American ideals of the perfect citizen since about the time of Dale Carnegie than due to any actual results. In fact many successful CEOs are introverts, because deep critical thinking and mediation tend to be useful qualities, surprisingly enough. Not in finance though. And the world of finance has had a smooth ride, alright.
- gamechangr 15y ago
  Actually think it has more to do with the fact that extroverted people are more persuasive and generally voice their opinions more. Some of it is just in the numbers...if you know more people you have a strategic advantage of more opportunities. Oh yeah....It's not an American concept????
zeroonetwothree 15y ago
Where is the evidence for this? I think it's simply not true.

atldev 15y ago

Don't waste time worrying about how to succeed as an introvert. You'll find examples of successful communicators, entrepreneurs, leaders, and CEOs that are all introverts. I would write more about examples and experience, but back to point #1. Don't waste time worrying about how to succeed as an introvert.

darasen 15y ago

I applied for a job that had one of those idiotic 'personality tests'. They could have boiled it down to one question: Introvert or not. I was told they thought I scored too low to consider. For some reason I had decided to answer honestly instead of the choice they were obviously looking for. One question in particular annoyed me was something along the lines of when not at work do prefer to be in a crowd of people or at home. What does not at work have to do with anything work related?

setrofim_ 15y ago
If a company seriously uses such tests to select hires, you're probably better off not working for them. Personality and "cultural fit" are important aspects (for some jobs more than others), but a much better way to assess those is to spend an hour talking to the potential employee; not through some standardized test. I've also heard that some companies still use graphology in their screening process (though this may be just an urban myth).

larve 15y ago

I am a bit wary of the introvert/extrovert labeling, but have bought the bought and decided to read through it. Playing the game, I'd say I'm an introvert, and to be honest, the cool thing about this is realizing that all I really need is time for myself. It doesn't really matter what happens or what the circumstances are, as long as I have a book or a computer or a pencil I'm pretty much happy in my own little bubble. Because I used to love sharing what I discovered in that little bubble so much, I went through a phase where I learned public speaking, and also connecting to people. I usually do this one and one, but find it very easy to establish deep connections by actually cutting through the "bullshit". I then started a company, and had to put myself out there quite a bit more. Having had no real experience of social contacts before though (except these connections with I have to admit people pretty much far out there), I went far overboard, which came back to bite me. I think that is the biggest issue with all the "introversion" (not really thinking about reaching out to other people, maybe even not really thinking about myself as a person nor other people at all). I have no real concept of emotions, of how people could react, that people can do things that hurt, that you can do things that hurt other people, etc... I am now 30, I still believe that people are fundamentally good, but I see the shades of gray in their actions. That's stuff that more "extrovert" people probably learn at age 15. The older I get the more I realize that I actually need social contact, at least a few times a week. And I'm definitely struggling with that very much. After that "getting out there thing", and running into a few quite hurtful things, I completely lashed out to the other side, going back to my hacking and art and what not, but actually actively destroying everything I produce (unless it's for a client) so that other people won't notice, and I don't feel the need to talk about it. It's a hard habit to get out from. And I still don't actually know if it would be better for other people to notice, or if being the submarine in a society where most people you notice are actively craving for recognition. Recognition feels empty, while being happy on your own is much more rewarding. I hope that this book (it may be nicely written and founded, or just another substanceless self-help book) will instill a small spark of self-confidence by just putting a label on my behaviour. That never hurts.

daintynews 15y ago

If this post was made in response to this article, I'm not sure. But I guess, it's also worth a read. www.swaglove.com/blog/why-offensive-people-are-more-successful/

agilebyte 15y ago

If someone is looking for a more detailed set of "labels" then check out Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI). Take a test here: http://similarminds.com/personality_tests.html http://similarminds.com/personality_tests.html and searching for your "type", judge for yourself if the advice given could advance you. As discussed before on HN, the readership here is skewed towards INTP/INTJ compared to a general population (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1675197 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1675197).

troels 15y ago

I really dislike that whole idea of an intro/extrovert dualism. I don't consider myself one or the other. Most people who know me would probably describe me as introverted, but I don't have any problem letting myself be heard or taking leadership of a situation if it's needed. So I just plain find that those labels don't fit me very well and I somehow find it implausible that I should be a unique snowflake, a statistical outlier.

yason 15y ago

Introversion means you charge energy by being alone and enjoying your own company, and you discharge when you spend time with others. Extraversion is the opposite. Introverts can exhibit extraverted behaviour, just like extraverts can exhibit introverted behaviour. It's just more taxing and the key is to balance between charging vs. discharging so that you won't run out of juice.

strickjb9 15y ago

Extrovery & Introverts compliment each other extremely well. Imagine if Steve Jobs & Steve Wozniak where both introverts.... or if they were both extroverts. That tandem would have never played out as well.