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Also when I lived under said 1-party regime I have never seen people more politically and socially engaged - and not just in a rebellious way. I live in Canada

Also when I lived under said 1-party regime I have never seen people more politically and socially engaged - and not just in a rebellious way. I live in Canada now and most people are totally indifferent as to what happens in their own community, let alone further afield. I hope no one is reading my posts thinking "This guy is defending Hitler! Stone him!" For all I know Syria could be far worse then anything I've ever experienced. And in the end we kicked out our president too! (Although no bazookas or AK-47s were involved) So this could just be a natural progression of any authoritative regime. Okay, I just don't get the reference. From your name, I'm guessing you originally come from ex-Yugoslavia, just like me. Now, the only time I remember the country was truly under 1-party regime was when the Communist Party was in power. However, that didn't end in "kicking out our president". If you're referring to Slobodan Milošević, by that time Yugoslavia (or what was left of it) had multiple parties. True, Slobodan seized the power, but there were other parties opposing him. And the only reason why "no bazookas or AK-47s were involved" was because things didn't have the chance to get there, because the army decided not to support him any more. The whole point -- and I'm not the first one to point this out in this thread -- is that resistance to dictatorship (or any deprivation of liberty) gradually evolves from peaceful protests to violence.

mladenkovacevic 15y ago
Under Milosevic there were opposition parties but they had no real chance of assuming power in elections (whether because of election fraud, or because Milosevic had real support, or a little bit of both). All official media channels were controlled by the government and the only choices for opposition at that time had was to either get in bed with the Milosevic and reap some benefits or to organize rallies and protests. Protests were largely peaceful and lasted a long time. The main surge of protests that resulted in Milosevic's downfall was in the fall of 2000 but I can assure you we were in the streets for YEARS leading up to that. It wasn't swift by any means.
- CodeMage 15y ago
  That's precisely the point I was making. Resistance starts with peaceful protests and gets gradually more violent. The "main surge of protests" you're talking about was a lot less peaceful than the initial peaceful protests. It never got to the point of armed resistance, for two reasons: 1) Milošević didn't go around killing ordinary people indiscriminately and 2) the army decided to withdraw its support when he ordered them to disperse the protesters. What do you think would have happened if general populace started getting slaughtered left and right? Sure, the vast majority of the people would've shut up and bent down their heads, because shutting the hell up is a lot better than having your kids shot or growing up as orphans. But some sort of armed resistance would have surely sprung into existence. I don't want to be unfair or rude here, but to me it seems that you are either deliberately ignoring what people are trying to say in this thread or you're having reading comprehension problems. It has been pointed out several times that things in Syria started out as protests and turned into armed resistance due to use of lethal force to suppress protests. By now it should be clear what we're all trying to say. Using Milošević and his regime as a counter-argument doesn't hold up, precisely because Milošević's dictatorship was quite "benign" compared to extremes such as Syria.
  - mladenkovacevic 15y ago
    I am not arguing against anyone's opinion and concede that in Syria it is perhaps too late for "peaceful protests". But as an outsider I have to rely on "unconfirmed reports", "third party accounts" and "anonymous youtube videos". Watch any newsreel and this is exactly how every report from Syria is prefaced. I'm just trying to remain objective. Maybe my paranoia has reached unhealthy levels as result of propaganda in my own life but I don't think it's unreasonable to consider exactly how the conflict escalated to this point. It's a little scary how people are quick to turn on you unless you blindly buy into unconfirmed reports of government snipers indiscriminately taking out civilians. Taking part in this kind of group think puts you on a fast moving train towards a single resolution... when in fact there might be 2 or 3 forks in the road that might result in less collateral damage. And finally to re-iterate.. I am not arguing that Assad is not a bastard who ordered the troops to shoot on civilians: so far he seems to most definitely be that kind of bastard. I'd just like to retain my ability to keep an open mind and consider all sides of the story. Ok now downvote away.

mladenkovacevic 15y ago

Under Milosevic there were opposition parties but they had no real chance of assuming power in elections (whether because of election fraud, or because Milosevic had real support, or a little bit of both). All official media channels were controlled by the government and the only choices for opposition at that time had was to either get in bed with the Milosevic and reap some benefits or to organize rallies and protests. Protests were largely peaceful and lasted a long time. The main surge of protests that resulted in Milosevic's downfall was in the fall of 2000 but I can assure you we were in the streets for YEARS leading up to that. It wasn't swift by any means.

CodeMage 15y ago
That's precisely the point I was making. Resistance starts with peaceful protests and gets gradually more violent. The "main surge of protests" you're talking about was a lot less peaceful than the initial peaceful protests. It never got to the point of armed resistance, for two reasons: 1) Milošević didn't go around killing ordinary people indiscriminately and 2) the army decided to withdraw its support when he ordered them to disperse the protesters. What do you think would have happened if general populace started getting slaughtered left and right? Sure, the vast majority of the people would've shut up and bent down their heads, because shutting the hell up is a lot better than having your kids shot or growing up as orphans. But some sort of armed resistance would have surely sprung into existence. I don't want to be unfair or rude here, but to me it seems that you are either deliberately ignoring what people are trying to say in this thread or you're having reading comprehension problems. It has been pointed out several times that things in Syria started out as protests and turned into armed resistance due to use of lethal force to suppress protests. By now it should be clear what we're all trying to say. Using Milošević and his regime as a counter-argument doesn't hold up, precisely because Milošević's dictatorship was quite "benign" compared to extremes such as Syria.
- mladenkovacevic 15y ago
  I am not arguing against anyone's opinion and concede that in Syria it is perhaps too late for "peaceful protests". But as an outsider I have to rely on "unconfirmed reports", "third party accounts" and "anonymous youtube videos". Watch any newsreel and this is exactly how every report from Syria is prefaced. I'm just trying to remain objective. Maybe my paranoia has reached unhealthy levels as result of propaganda in my own life but I don't think it's unreasonable to consider exactly how the conflict escalated to this point. It's a little scary how people are quick to turn on you unless you blindly buy into unconfirmed reports of government snipers indiscriminately taking out civilians. Taking part in this kind of group think puts you on a fast moving train towards a single resolution... when in fact there might be 2 or 3 forks in the road that might result in less collateral damage. And finally to re-iterate.. I am not arguing that Assad is not a bastard who ordered the troops to shoot on civilians: so far he seems to most definitely be that kind of bastard. I'd just like to retain my ability to keep an open mind and consider all sides of the story. Ok now downvote away.