3 ms·

> The Greeks figured this out the Greeks didn't have Psych 101 classes with 2000 students

by 0zemp1c 3y ago

bhaney 3y ago
Maybe we shouldn't either
- myhf 3y ago
  Maybe survey classes are worth having even without performance assessment.
MichaelZuo 3y ago
There is the possibility of increasing course fees to allow for smaller class sizes with competent oral evaluators.
- cultofmetatron 3y ago
  gut the brusar and fire half the administrators. We can replace 80% of the school administration with AI anyway. that will free up enough money and PAY professors a living wage.
- 0zemp1c 3y ago
  Colleges in the US on the march to $100k a year already...do you really think students/parents are looking for optional ways to spend even more? People want to learn, but what they really want is a degree. No one is going to go two more years into debt for pedagogical purity
shagie 3y ago
Chemistry 101 is likely a better example. Intro to chemistry is a required to class for almost all STE (not M, but M often takes it too for a physical science degree), along with anything that touches on nutrition, medical... https://chem.wisc.edu/chemistry-building-project-overview/ https://chem.wisc.edu/chemistry-building-project-overview/ > Chemistry, as the central science, is relevant to many other disciplines and is therefore part of the core curriculum of numerous degree programs on campus. By the time they graduate, 55 percent of undergraduates have taken a chemistry class at UW-Madison. As enrollment grew over the years, department and campus leaders noticed that students were often not able to schedule needed courses. This meant it took them longer to earn a degree. There are about 10,000 under grads for each year at UW Madison. Chem 103 gets about 5000 students per year. While that roughly matches the Psych 101 with 2000... this shows that "here's a real number."
logifail 3y ago
> Psych 101 classes with 2000 students Q1: Are there thousands of employers out there demanding students who have passed Psych 101 with flying colours? Q2: If not, why not try to stop this?
- vineyardmike 3y ago
  Maybe there’s value to classes outside of what employers want Especially for survey-level classes that aren’t specific to a specialization or major. I think alternatively we need employers to stop asking for degree’s altogether so the enrollees are people who are there to learn for themselves not for employers. It’d reduce the crazy demand and cost around education.
  - logifail 3y ago
    > Maybe there’s value to classes outside of what employers want Especially for survey-level classes that aren’t specific to a specialization or major (Full disclosure: I don't understand the US college system at all [sorry!]) In what circumstances would a student be already at college and wanting/needing to "survey" psychology by doing Psych 101? More broadly, who wants to major in psychology .. and why? Do employers need more professional psychologists?
    - vineyardmike 3y ago
      1. Some people want to study psychology (or other classes) for pure intellectual reasons. They’re curious about the world. Shouldn’t that be enough? 2. “Survey” courses have 2 values through helping people learn new topics (1) gain broad understanding of the world, and (2) discover fields they may wish to major or study deeper in if they haven’t decided yet. My caveat here is that I suspect (unsubstantiated) that some topics become filler by universities. 3. There are lots of jobs people do with a psychology major, besides a psychologist/researcher, but I don’t know how many of them require that deep knowledge explicitly. Many jobs are probably better performed if you learn some psychology (eg a few classes worth) - marketing, non-therapeutic counseling (coaches, teaching, etc), HR, recruiting, doctors, nurses, organizational management, etc. I want to reiterate point 1 - there’s value in education beyond employment, but it’s plausible that employers should care less. I doubt most employers expect candidates to take survey level courses, but requiring a degree of any sort implicitly assumes they have taken those courses.

> The Greeks figured this out the Greeks didn't have Psych 101 classes with 2000 students

bhaney 3y ago

Maybe we shouldn't either

myhf 3y ago
Maybe survey classes are worth having even without performance assessment.

MichaelZuo 3y ago

There is the possibility of increasing course fees to allow for smaller class sizes with competent oral evaluators.

cultofmetatron 3y ago
gut the brusar and fire half the administrators. We can replace 80% of the school administration with AI anyway. that will free up enough money and PAY professors a living wage.
0zemp1c 3y ago
Colleges in the US on the march to $100k a year already...do you really think students/parents are looking for optional ways to spend even more? People want to learn, but what they really want is a degree. No one is going to go two more years into debt for pedagogical purity

shagie 3y ago

Chemistry 101 is likely a better example. Intro to chemistry is a required to class for almost all STE (not M, but M often takes it too for a physical science degree), along with anything that touches on nutrition, medical... https://chem.wisc.edu/chemistry-building-project-overview/ https://chem.wisc.edu/chemistry-building-project-overview/ > Chemistry, as the central science, is relevant to many other disciplines and is therefore part of the core curriculum of numerous degree programs on campus. By the time they graduate, 55 percent of undergraduates have taken a chemistry class at UW-Madison. As enrollment grew over the years, department and campus leaders noticed that students were often not able to schedule needed courses. This meant it took them longer to earn a degree. There are about 10,000 under grads for each year at UW Madison. Chem 103 gets about 5000 students per year. While that roughly matches the Psych 101 with 2000... this shows that "here's a real number."

logifail 3y ago

> Psych 101 classes with 2000 students Q1: Are there thousands of employers out there demanding students who have passed Psych 101 with flying colours? Q2: If not, why not try to stop this?

vineyardmike 3y ago
Maybe there’s value to classes outside of what employers want Especially for survey-level classes that aren’t specific to a specialization or major. I think alternatively we need employers to stop asking for degree’s altogether so the enrollees are people who are there to learn for themselves not for employers. It’d reduce the crazy demand and cost around education.
- logifail 3y ago
  > Maybe there’s value to classes outside of what employers want Especially for survey-level classes that aren’t specific to a specialization or major (Full disclosure: I don't understand the US college system at all [sorry!]) In what circumstances would a student be already at college and wanting/needing to "survey" psychology by doing Psych 101? More broadly, who wants to major in psychology .. and why? Do employers need more professional psychologists?
  - vineyardmike 3y ago
    1. Some people want to study psychology (or other classes) for pure intellectual reasons. They’re curious about the world. Shouldn’t that be enough? 2. “Survey” courses have 2 values through helping people learn new topics (1) gain broad understanding of the world, and (2) discover fields they may wish to major or study deeper in if they haven’t decided yet. My caveat here is that I suspect (unsubstantiated) that some topics become filler by universities. 3. There are lots of jobs people do with a psychology major, besides a psychologist/researcher, but I don’t know how many of them require that deep knowledge explicitly. Many jobs are probably better performed if you learn some psychology (eg a few classes worth) - marketing, non-therapeutic counseling (coaches, teaching, etc), HR, recruiting, doctors, nurses, organizational management, etc. I want to reiterate point 1 - there’s value in education beyond employment, but it’s plausible that employers should care less. I doubt most employers expect candidates to take survey level courses, but requiring a degree of any sort implicitly assumes they have taken those courses.