3 ms·

I agree that we can do better here. Do you have a comparison in mind that you really liked?

by aeneas_ory 3y ago

illiarian 3y ago
Funny how you claim to support GDPR but your own site displays a non-compliant cookie banner.
- samtho 3y ago
  Their cookie banner is provided by a 3rd party and I can’t see how it is non-compliant unless there is something I’m missing.
  - capableweb 3y ago
    Because it's a 3rd party, it cannot be non-compliant? Seems like it's 1 extra click to disallow compared to allow, so yeah, non-compliant. Should be exactly as easy to say yes as saying no. In this case it's not.
    - tiki_ory 3y ago
      Hey. Ory PM here. Thanks for the info. We fixed the Cookie Banner now. So one click Deny is now possible.
    - pestaa 3y ago
      Overblown criticism like this give GDPR an undeserved bad rep.
      - illiarian 3y ago
        It's not overblown criticism. They advertise their product as GDPR-compliant, and yet their website uses dark patterns to trick people into allowing tracking, and is not GDPR-compliant. Do I trust them to be as diligent in their product? And yeah, what gives GDPR bad rep is exactly these kinds of dark patterns and other forms of malicious compliance by non-caring companies.
      - smolder 3y ago
        Incorrect implementations give GDPR a bad reputation, though there are worse ones.
      - capableweb 3y ago
        Either we have regulation and call people out when they don't follow it and hopefully eventually fine them, or we can just skip it all together.
    - samtho 3y ago
      > Because it's a 3rd party, it cannot be non-compliant? Not at all. My point was that they are not offering that as product.
  - illiarian 3y ago
    It's their choice to chose that banner, and their choice to configure it this way. Most third-party banners are non-compliant, including this one. Which they should know, given that they advertise GDPR compliance for their main product. The banner should have a Reject All option, preferably as default action. Also relevant: https://noyb.eu/en/where-did-all-reject-buttons-come https://noyb.eu/en/where-did-all-reject-buttons-come
cyanf 3y ago
The frontpage should make it clear which open source project corresponds to which Ory Network product. I was confused about that for a while. Ex: Login & Authentication -> Kratos Permissions & Access Control -> Keto. You could take some cues from Grafana here. Similarly to Ory, their product is backed by OSS. Their frontpage’s navigation bar makes it clear which is backed by which.
nprateem 3y ago
I understood its something to do with auth but even the comparison pages didn't clarify in meaningful ways how it's different. I don't see how this could help me get more users - that's my job not yours. I was also confused what a network has to do with auth. Is this some kind of distributed auth product? Who knows. Also, I don't think anyone looking at a saas auth product would consider rolling their own. Presumably they're on your site because they aren't interested in that. So I just didn't know what your value proposition is.

I agree that we can do better here. Do you have a comparison in mind that you really liked?

illiarian 3y ago

Funny how you claim to support GDPR but your own site displays a non-compliant cookie banner.

samtho 3y ago
Their cookie banner is provided by a 3rd party and I can’t see how it is non-compliant unless there is something I’m missing.
- capableweb 3y ago
  Because it's a 3rd party, it cannot be non-compliant? Seems like it's 1 extra click to disallow compared to allow, so yeah, non-compliant. Should be exactly as easy to say yes as saying no. In this case it's not.
  - tiki_ory 3y ago
    Hey. Ory PM here. Thanks for the info. We fixed the Cookie Banner now. So one click Deny is now possible.
  - pestaa 3y ago
    Overblown criticism like this give GDPR an undeserved bad rep.
    - illiarian 3y ago
      It's not overblown criticism. They advertise their product as GDPR-compliant, and yet their website uses dark patterns to trick people into allowing tracking, and is not GDPR-compliant. Do I trust them to be as diligent in their product? And yeah, what gives GDPR bad rep is exactly these kinds of dark patterns and other forms of malicious compliance by non-caring companies.
    - smolder 3y ago
      Incorrect implementations give GDPR a bad reputation, though there are worse ones.
    - capableweb 3y ago
      Either we have regulation and call people out when they don't follow it and hopefully eventually fine them, or we can just skip it all together.
  - samtho 3y ago
    > Because it's a 3rd party, it cannot be non-compliant? Not at all. My point was that they are not offering that as product.
- illiarian 3y ago
  It's their choice to chose that banner, and their choice to configure it this way. Most third-party banners are non-compliant, including this one. Which they should know, given that they advertise GDPR compliance for their main product. The banner should have a Reject All option, preferably as default action. Also relevant: https://noyb.eu/en/where-did-all-reject-buttons-come https://noyb.eu/en/where-did-all-reject-buttons-come

cyanf 3y ago

The frontpage should make it clear which open source project corresponds to which Ory Network product. I was confused about that for a while. Ex: Login & Authentication -> Kratos Permissions & Access Control -> Keto. You could take some cues from Grafana here. Similarly to Ory, their product is backed by OSS. Their frontpage’s navigation bar makes it clear which is backed by which.

nprateem 3y ago

I understood its something to do with auth but even the comparison pages didn't clarify in meaningful ways how it's different. I don't see how this could help me get more users - that's my job not yours. I was also confused what a network has to do with auth. Is this some kind of distributed auth product? Who knows. Also, I don't think anyone looking at a saas auth product would consider rolling their own. Presumably they're on your site because they aren't interested in that. So I just didn't know what your value proposition is.