4 ms·

Well, since EU is most definitely NOT safe from Russia I'd say you either don't pay enough or the money's squandered on something else.

pb7 3y ago
EU's safety is the EU's problem. It has long been underinvesting in security hoping that the US would be its bodyguard. Time to see how little money you have left over for social safety nets when you're not buying cheap resources from the same enemy you need protection from.
- Animatronio 3y ago
  If EU's safety is its problem then why are we not allowed to take an independent stance in any matter? As to the cheap resources, I'm sorry we didn't invade Iraq, Libia, Syria to get oil for pennies. The EU bought at market price from Russia, what's your point? Was US oil cheaper and we said no?
  - pb7 3y ago
    >If EU's safety is its problem then why are we not allowed to take an independent stance in any matter? The EU pushed for sanctions just as much as the US did, you just don't like the outcome. >As to the cheap resources, I'm sorry we didn't invade Iraq, Libia, Syria to get oil for pennies. Well, first, you need a military to be able to do that. Second, we don't get oil for pennies anymore but we're not under existential crisis as to the future of cost of living. >The EU bought at market price from Russia, what's your point? You built a dependence on a country you're now scared of and that manages to get by without your money and that was a strategic mistake. The US has and is making a similar mistake with China. If the China situation pops off, it'll be the same thing here (and Europe is going to feel the pain of that because it's reliant on China for cheap tchotchkes too).
    - Animatronio 3y ago
      The US has plenty of useful idiots in positions of power in the EU, yes. They knew precisely what sanctions meant for the populace but went ahead anyway. As to the military I'd like to refer you to this: https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-nato-problem-defense-procurement-training-research/ https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-nato-problem-defense-... A couple of quotes: "Opposition comes not only from the U.S., which despite Trump’s browbeating of allies to spend more, is intent on preserving a 70-year-old framework that lets Washington call the shots and put its interests first." "Under the guise of avoiding “duplication” and demanding “complementary” capabilities, the U.S. and NATO’s political leaders continue to put up strong resistance to the EU ever developing the command-and-control capabilities that would allow it to operate outside of the alliance’s existing umbrella." At least on the China situation we seem to agree...

pb7 3y ago

EU's safety is the EU's problem. It has long been underinvesting in security hoping that the US would be its bodyguard. Time to see how little money you have left over for social safety nets when you're not buying cheap resources from the same enemy you need protection from.

Animatronio 3y ago
If EU's safety is its problem then why are we not allowed to take an independent stance in any matter? As to the cheap resources, I'm sorry we didn't invade Iraq, Libia, Syria to get oil for pennies. The EU bought at market price from Russia, what's your point? Was US oil cheaper and we said no?
- pb7 3y ago
  >If EU's safety is its problem then why are we not allowed to take an independent stance in any matter? The EU pushed for sanctions just as much as the US did, you just don't like the outcome. >As to the cheap resources, I'm sorry we didn't invade Iraq, Libia, Syria to get oil for pennies. Well, first, you need a military to be able to do that. Second, we don't get oil for pennies anymore but we're not under existential crisis as to the future of cost of living. >The EU bought at market price from Russia, what's your point? You built a dependence on a country you're now scared of and that manages to get by without your money and that was a strategic mistake. The US has and is making a similar mistake with China. If the China situation pops off, it'll be the same thing here (and Europe is going to feel the pain of that because it's reliant on China for cheap tchotchkes too).
  - Animatronio 3y ago
    The US has plenty of useful idiots in positions of power in the EU, yes. They knew precisely what sanctions meant for the populace but went ahead anyway. As to the military I'd like to refer you to this: https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-nato-problem-defense-procurement-training-research/ https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-nato-problem-defense-... A couple of quotes: "Opposition comes not only from the U.S., which despite Trump’s browbeating of allies to spend more, is intent on preserving a 70-year-old framework that lets Washington call the shots and put its interests first." "Under the guise of avoiding “duplication” and demanding “complementary” capabilities, the U.S. and NATO’s political leaders continue to put up strong resistance to the EU ever developing the command-and-control capabilities that would allow it to operate outside of the alliance’s existing umbrella." At least on the China situation we seem to agree...