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Something has to be behind the seemingly coordinated rise in depression among children globally, that's the leading indicator he's using to assess the problem.

Something has to be behind the seemingly coordinated rise in depression among children globally, that's the leading indicator he's using to assess the problem. His argument is that it can't be anything other than social media. You're making the case in the micro scale: what is one person's relationship with depression and social media, and he's arguing in the macro scale. Something has caused depression to spike in children worldwide. What could it be?

kuschku 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
  You are describing a commonly shared sentiment of today. This spike started nearly a decade ago, long before our current economic situation materialized. To your point, who largely gets to decide which news stories get aggregated and which don't? Who has an outsized influence in shaping people's realities? By many metrics, times are tough, but by many other metrics, we are living in prosperous times as well.
  - misnome 3y ago
    > long before our current economic situation materialized 2008 was 15 years ago
- mafro 3y ago
  Not disagreeing with your statements, but the key question in the research is why did depression spike in children worldwide _after 2012_. At various points in my lifetime there have been reasons to be sad about the world - but what changed in 2012 that predominantly appears to affect teenage girls, and has been observed in several countries globally?
  - kuschku 3y ago
    I'm saying that social media didn't cause the fears, but that social media ended the millenia of social pressure to just accept everything the way it is. Cities once did the same, by increasing the population density you could hang out with people that had the same thoughts you did. But many countries successfully ended that through suburbanisation, isolating people once again.
    - bluefirebrand 3y ago
      Sounds like you could make an argument that cities make people depressed as well then. I wonder if population density is a driving force for depression, both online and offline. I'd buy that. I find cities miserable.
      - RugnirViking 3y ago
        oooh thats an interesting thought, I really like that.
      - dlivingston 3y ago
        As a personal anecdote, I moved from rural New Mexico to a highly populated New England county and my baseline anxiety level noticeably increased.
  - Dracophoenix 3y ago
    Maybe the Mayans were right all along? In all serious, 2012-2013 coincides with 1/3 and 1/2 of the American population's owning a smartphone. Maybe that has something to do with it?
- bluescrn 3y ago
  If children/teens weren't exposed to so much online doom-mongering, they would be finding things to live for rather than fearing the future. Even if the world is a bit shit, there's still plenty of opportunities for love, family, friendship, art, music, sport, and plenty more. Maybe even working towards solving one of the big problems we face, whether that's through science/tech or politics/economics?
  - kuschku 3y ago
    It's exactly this "we didn't start the fire" mentality that caused the situation we're in. If you want the world to change, you need to do that. You can't just wait for it to happen.
    - bluescrn 3y ago
      The Internet, through social media and clickbait news, encourages people to get ever-angrier and ever-more-radical until they attempt to 'change things' by smashing and burning, or justifying violence against political 'enemies'. I don't know what the answers to the world's big problems are, but I'm pretty sure that smashing, burning, and pushing for violent revolution, insurrection, or civil war is not the answer.
    - racktash 3y ago
      Most of the world's problems aren't solvable by everyday people. Better to focus one's attention on oneself, work, family and community, where a difference might be made. (Obviously it's also great if a person can donate to charity or something of that nature. But obsessively following world events will make you miserable and solve nothing.)
  - hotpotamus 3y ago
    Perhaps if they were narrowly focused on religion? It seems to work for the Amish and other intensely devout groups.
    - bluescrn 3y ago
      I've always been an atheist, but I'm starting to wonder whether the decline of religion has done more harm than good. We've certainly lost some of the basic human decency that was once passed on via religion. The concept of forgiveness seems to be one glaring example, and the rise of selfish consumerism and online narcissism. Maybe we need something to replace religion, without the dogma, oppression, and conflict. Something other than the online tribalism and activism seems to be filling that void for many...
misnome 3y ago
> What could it be? The state of the world? Better measurement and diagnosis of depression?
tssva 3y ago
The child mental health industrial complex which started in the 2000's and has boomed over the last decade as parents have been bombarded with the message that they need to rush their kids off to a therapist at the slightest sign of normal teenage angst or they are bad parents. Schools have bought into this and participate in the messaging. Once under "treatment" kids are repeatedly told they have anxiety and/or depression which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. What would have been normal teenage angst which in most cases resolves itself quickly now becomes a long-term issue of course requiring more therapy. This drives even more kids to think they have anxiety and/or depression because their friends have it. Lately I have started to see push back among my teenage daughter's friends' parents as they have realized that their kids have actually gotten quite worse since starting therapy. Many have started pulling their kids from therapy and quickly seen their kids mental state improve.
- rodgerd 3y ago
  > The child mental health industrial complex This seems like a rational, evidence-based position.
- Drew_ 3y ago
  I find it very hard to believe that an otherwise healthy person can spiral into depression simply by hearing about it a lot.
  - raxxorraxor 3y ago
    Formerly it was easy to find on Google, but I guess Corona "fortified" health information and the results are really bad right now because you cannot match the topic accurately. I had no success, but suggestibility of illnesses and conditions is a huge topic in psychology. There were many induced cases of conditions that stopped when the "patients" stopped therapy. There are many reasons why patients would accept such a false diagnosis. I don't believe this is the case here, though.
  - revelio 3y ago
    Therapists have a long history of creating entirely false memories in children, telling them that they were abused by satanists as a child! Teenagers often go through some depression-like episodes due to love interests or whatever, so telling them they're medically depressed is a much smaller leap than what came previously.
CamArchibald 3y ago
[dead]
0xBABAD00C 3y ago
It's not a strong argument to say "what could it be other than X? therefore, X" > What could it be? Sense of community is gone. Trust is at an all-time low. Traditional social institutions and scaffolding that held society together are gone. Families are more broken apart than ever. It's an entire regime change, and we're still operating with our old instincts/hardware, which expects to be raised in a village by a largely familiar and empathetic community. The farther we get from that model, the more we'll be stressed out (until and unless we upgrade our hardware somehow, or, more likely, die trying). Social media is small potatoes in comparison to the changes that have happened already, and especially to those that are coming.
- maroonblazer 3y ago
  > Sense of community is gone. Trust is at an all-time low. Traditional social institutions and scaffolding that held society together are gone. Families are more broken apart than ever. Granting all of that to be true (though I think it could be argued otherwise), those things started happening long before the sharp rise in depression among teen girls.
- Aerbil313 3y ago
  And it’s all due to the very existence of progressing technology. Dr. Skrbina in the book Technological Slavery makes the case that humanity has no control over the impacts of technology on humanity, and that technology has an emergent will that is independent of humans who create and operate it. https://ia600300.us.archive.org/21/items/tk-Technological-Slavery/tk-Technological-Slavery.pdf https://ia600300.us.archive.org/21/items/tk-Technological-Sl...

kuschku 3y ago

[flagged]

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
You are describing a commonly shared sentiment of today. This spike started nearly a decade ago, long before our current economic situation materialized. To your point, who largely gets to decide which news stories get aggregated and which don't? Who has an outsized influence in shaping people's realities? By many metrics, times are tough, but by many other metrics, we are living in prosperous times as well.
- misnome 3y ago
  > long before our current economic situation materialized 2008 was 15 years ago
mafro 3y ago
Not disagreeing with your statements, but the key question in the research is why did depression spike in children worldwide _after 2012_. At various points in my lifetime there have been reasons to be sad about the world - but what changed in 2012 that predominantly appears to affect teenage girls, and has been observed in several countries globally?
- kuschku 3y ago
  I'm saying that social media didn't cause the fears, but that social media ended the millenia of social pressure to just accept everything the way it is. Cities once did the same, by increasing the population density you could hang out with people that had the same thoughts you did. But many countries successfully ended that through suburbanisation, isolating people once again.
  - bluefirebrand 3y ago
    Sounds like you could make an argument that cities make people depressed as well then. I wonder if population density is a driving force for depression, both online and offline. I'd buy that. I find cities miserable.
    - RugnirViking 3y ago
      oooh thats an interesting thought, I really like that.
    - dlivingston 3y ago
      As a personal anecdote, I moved from rural New Mexico to a highly populated New England county and my baseline anxiety level noticeably increased.
- Dracophoenix 3y ago
  Maybe the Mayans were right all along? In all serious, 2012-2013 coincides with 1/3 and 1/2 of the American population's owning a smartphone. Maybe that has something to do with it?
bluescrn 3y ago
If children/teens weren't exposed to so much online doom-mongering, they would be finding things to live for rather than fearing the future. Even if the world is a bit shit, there's still plenty of opportunities for love, family, friendship, art, music, sport, and plenty more. Maybe even working towards solving one of the big problems we face, whether that's through science/tech or politics/economics?
- kuschku 3y ago
  It's exactly this "we didn't start the fire" mentality that caused the situation we're in. If you want the world to change, you need to do that. You can't just wait for it to happen.
  - bluescrn 3y ago
    The Internet, through social media and clickbait news, encourages people to get ever-angrier and ever-more-radical until they attempt to 'change things' by smashing and burning, or justifying violence against political 'enemies'. I don't know what the answers to the world's big problems are, but I'm pretty sure that smashing, burning, and pushing for violent revolution, insurrection, or civil war is not the answer.
  - racktash 3y ago
    Most of the world's problems aren't solvable by everyday people. Better to focus one's attention on oneself, work, family and community, where a difference might be made. (Obviously it's also great if a person can donate to charity or something of that nature. But obsessively following world events will make you miserable and solve nothing.)
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  Perhaps if they were narrowly focused on religion? It seems to work for the Amish and other intensely devout groups.
  - bluescrn 3y ago
    I've always been an atheist, but I'm starting to wonder whether the decline of religion has done more harm than good. We've certainly lost some of the basic human decency that was once passed on via religion. The concept of forgiveness seems to be one glaring example, and the rise of selfish consumerism and online narcissism. Maybe we need something to replace religion, without the dogma, oppression, and conflict. Something other than the online tribalism and activism seems to be filling that void for many...

misnome 3y ago

> What could it be? The state of the world? Better measurement and diagnosis of depression?

tssva 3y ago

The child mental health industrial complex which started in the 2000's and has boomed over the last decade as parents have been bombarded with the message that they need to rush their kids off to a therapist at the slightest sign of normal teenage angst or they are bad parents. Schools have bought into this and participate in the messaging. Once under "treatment" kids are repeatedly told they have anxiety and/or depression which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. What would have been normal teenage angst which in most cases resolves itself quickly now becomes a long-term issue of course requiring more therapy. This drives even more kids to think they have anxiety and/or depression because their friends have it. Lately I have started to see push back among my teenage daughter's friends' parents as they have realized that their kids have actually gotten quite worse since starting therapy. Many have started pulling their kids from therapy and quickly seen their kids mental state improve.

rodgerd 3y ago
> The child mental health industrial complex This seems like a rational, evidence-based position.
Drew_ 3y ago
I find it very hard to believe that an otherwise healthy person can spiral into depression simply by hearing about it a lot.
- raxxorraxor 3y ago
  Formerly it was easy to find on Google, but I guess Corona "fortified" health information and the results are really bad right now because you cannot match the topic accurately. I had no success, but suggestibility of illnesses and conditions is a huge topic in psychology. There were many induced cases of conditions that stopped when the "patients" stopped therapy. There are many reasons why patients would accept such a false diagnosis. I don't believe this is the case here, though.
- revelio 3y ago
  Therapists have a long history of creating entirely false memories in children, telling them that they were abused by satanists as a child! Teenagers often go through some depression-like episodes due to love interests or whatever, so telling them they're medically depressed is a much smaller leap than what came previously.

CamArchibald 3y ago

[dead]

0xBABAD00C 3y ago

It's not a strong argument to say "what could it be other than X? therefore, X" > What could it be? Sense of community is gone. Trust is at an all-time low. Traditional social institutions and scaffolding that held society together are gone. Families are more broken apart than ever. It's an entire regime change, and we're still operating with our old instincts/hardware, which expects to be raised in a village by a largely familiar and empathetic community. The farther we get from that model, the more we'll be stressed out (until and unless we upgrade our hardware somehow, or, more likely, die trying). Social media is small potatoes in comparison to the changes that have happened already, and especially to those that are coming.

maroonblazer 3y ago
> Sense of community is gone. Trust is at an all-time low. Traditional social institutions and scaffolding that held society together are gone. Families are more broken apart than ever. Granting all of that to be true (though I think it could be argued otherwise), those things started happening long before the sharp rise in depression among teen girls.
Aerbil313 3y ago
And it’s all due to the very existence of progressing technology. Dr. Skrbina in the book Technological Slavery makes the case that humanity has no control over the impacts of technology on humanity, and that technology has an emergent will that is independent of humans who create and operate it. https://ia600300.us.archive.org/21/items/tk-Technological-Slavery/tk-Technological-Slavery.pdf https://ia600300.us.archive.org/21/items/tk-Technological-Sl...